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Old 06-20-2008, 10:58 PM   #151
PokerBob
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
I'm not going to divulge his name without permission but you all know him. And I was sitting next to him recently and having a pleasant chat. Part of the discussion was my asking him his opinion of some successfull players.

Three of the names had him shaking his head. "The deck must be hitting them in the face". Those names were Chris Ferguson, Andy Bloch, and David Singer. Three of the most academic minded players. Because I interspersed those names with others, he didn't even realize the obvious bias he was exhibiting. It didn't even occur to him that the three he had the most negative comments about have similar traits and knowledge he doesn't posess.

Sorry I can't tell you who it was. Even so I thought his comments were worth repeating.
Well, none of this matters because these guys are tournament players and anyone with a brain knows that tournaments are stupid.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #152
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Here is an update. I asked the fellow who made the comments to give me permission to use his name. He was reluctant but said I could do it if it was a big deal to me. I declined, but then went on to try to talk him into posting here about this and other subjects. I'm crossing my fingers.

Also David Singer came up to me to tell me that he may not fit the category I was speaking about. But he does. He told me that he struggles with Bill Chen's book. But the thing is that he reads it. In fact he says that much of his knowledge comes from books. He told me his initial poker success is due mainly to my Seven Card Stud book. And he gave me permission to quote that statement. Though he is quite adept now in getting into other people's heads, he says that this is not a trait that comes naturally to him. He has to work on it. All in all I would put him much more in the academic camp than in the intuitive talent camp and he agrees. (By the way, his brother is a regular poster here. Don't kow if this is a known fact or not so I won't say who he is.)

Meanwhile the three pooh poohees are all in the top ten in this years all around WSOP rankings.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:23 AM   #153
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

okay that's a good NVG post.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:35 AM   #154
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Why all the drama? Why just not simply state the name of the person you are quoting?
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:36 AM   #155
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Here is an update. I asked the fellow who made the comments to give me permission to use his name. He was reluctant but said I could do it if it was a big deal to me. I declined, but then went on to try to talk him into posting here about this and other subjects. I'm crossing my fingers.

Also David Singer came up to me to tell me that he may not fit the category I was speaking about. But he does. He told me that he struggles with Bill Chen's book. But the thing is that he reads it. In fact he says that much of his knowledge comes from books. He told me his initial poker success is due mainly to my Seven Card Stud book. And he gave me permission to quote that statement. Though he is quite adept now in getting into other people's heads, he says that this is not a trait that comes naturally to him. He has to work on it. All in all I would put him much more in the academic camp than in the intuitive talent camp and he agrees. (By the way, his brother is a regular poster here. Don't kow if this is a known fact or not so I won't say who he is.)

Meanwhile the three pooh poohees are all in the top ten in this years all around WSOP rankings.
sttttttoooooopppppppppp
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #156
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

This is a scandal of epic proportions imo. I can't imagine Sklansky creating a more controversial thread.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:50 AM   #157
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Be realistic, you aren't gonna have people jumping at this thread. "WOW, I wonder who this TV pro is? I MUST KNOW!"

NVG is more catered to the 18-35 year olds who want to follow the gigantic swings in the lives of Ivey and Benyamine, or who is driving what car or who is bust. Not who thinks Bloch isn't a great player.
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Thanks Daniel, post more! So that's who OP is speaking of, Phil Ivey?
obv reason for hate
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:31 AM   #158
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by PanchoStern View Post
Why all the drama? Why just not simply state the name of the person you are quoting?
Must be some name in red (like Kenny Tran?) who doesn't want to piss off the bosses so he gave the wink-wink permission on the condition that it not actually be used, so he can claim to not be afraid of repercussions while not actually having to face any.

But seriously, if David Sklansky goes around calling his fellow pros "morons", then they won't say nice things like admitting to have been influenced by his books.

Of course, we'd all like to see the drama of Sklansky calling someone an idiot and that person retorting that DS doesn't know what he is talking about and the two getting into a verbal catfight that leads to Mason Malmuth stepping in and saying enough is enough.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:08 AM   #159
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

[ ] Slansky king of NVG
[x] bumb thread to the zoo
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #160
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

"academic camp" versus "intuitive talent camp" strip tease

Basically a non-issue because:

(a) both approaches work to a roughly similar degree

(b) strong and growing overlap between the two

(c) variance in 1000 hand tourney overwhelms everything

This is really a pro Academic Elitism post...
From a 60 yo dude who, bizarrely, still brags about his teenage math scores...
Even though success in real life has little to do with academic aptitude/knowledge...
It's all in the application and execution and managing people.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:19 PM   #161
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Sounds very much like DN to me. I remember him bashing math guy's plenty of times. Once he said something like Ferguson and others like him get it all-in pre-flop with low pairs too often.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:44 PM   #162
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

if you actually said something like this why would you be afraid to let people know you said it?

why is there any need for secrets?
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Old 06-22-2008, 12:50 AM   #163
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Heart Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

As ashamed as I am to admit it, I have actually read Phil Hellmuth's blog from time to time and this seems like something he would absolutely say. As an aside, if OP wrote 'tunaments' instead of "tounaments" it would actually be quite clever as it would infer that donkaments are full of fish.

I give this thread 8/10, more for the repeated ownage of OP than for the original content.

Lastly, I am with the many posters requesting more posts by Danniel Alaei. We're all a little ghey for you, Danny.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:04 AM   #164
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by reefdawg View Post
This is a scandal of epic proportions imo. I can't imagine Sklansky creating a more controversial thread.
really?
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:34 AM   #165
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by KSOT View Post
Sounds very much like DN to me. I remember him bashing math guy's plenty of times. Once he said something like Ferguson and others like him get it all-in pre-flop with low pairs too often.
Doesn't sound like Negreanu. For one, I think he wouldn't be reticent about being named.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:34 AM   #166
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by Danastasio1 View Post
FWIW, Clayton is a pretty nice guy, AFAIK. More than a few 2p2rs would say the same, IMO. ATM, I'm agreeing with Clayton's post, LOL.
did you have a bet on how many of those can fit in 3 sentences or sumtng?
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:26 AM   #167
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

i propose that "donkaments" shall henceforth be replaced by "tunaments", can i get a seconder
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:33 AM   #168
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

We should all be grateful to OP for 2p2, its pathetic the amount of hate towards his ramblings
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Old 06-22-2008, 09:52 AM   #169
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

I think this is a dreadful post by the op. You come on here with a half story and set things off.
There are players out there who wipe the floor with you time and time again and don't have any clue about math. Do you have math to explain that?
I know my math and have read your books, and tbh I am not any better(maybe even worse) than I was before I got into the math end of things.
I think you are just jealous of the success of some guy who you don't respect as your peer mathematically, and it kills you to know that he is a better poker player than you.

Basically you are a very good poker player, but you are not and never will be a great poker player, because you do not have the 'gift' for want of a better word. I know you can make a lot of money playing by the math all the time but basically most of the successful guys at the top end of poker have an edge that has nothing to do with math.

So basically you are just horrified when he does not respect three of your 'mathematical' peers who happen to be excellent players.

It just seems like a post of a jealous mind to me.
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:41 AM   #170
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSOT View Post
Sounds very much like DN to me. I remember him bashing math guy's plenty of times. Once he said something like Ferguson and others like him get it all-in pre-flop with low pairs too often.
First thing I thought of when I read this.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:54 PM   #171
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

A rather inauspicious thread to make my 2p2 debut, but It's killing me that nobody pegged this dude sklansky was gossiping about. Sfo Gavin Griffin.

Who else but a permadrunk live pro would talk sh*t about the math players.

Also PAD connection to Andy Bloche/Furg and foxwoods connection to Singer
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:24 PM   #172
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by eagleeye38 View Post
I think this is a dreadful post by the op. You come on here with a half story and set things off.
There are players out there who wipe the floor with you time and time again and don't have any clue about math. Do you have math to explain that?
Yes.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:38 PM   #173
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Originally Posted by Chuck Whoolery View Post
A rather inauspicious thread to make my 2p2 debut, but It's killing me that nobody pegged this dude sklansky was gossiping about. Sfo Gavin Griffin.

Who else but a permadrunk live pro would talk sh*t about the math players.

Also PAD connection to Andy Bloche/Furg and foxwoods connection to Singer



Pretty sure you mean Gavin Smith, not Gavin Griffin. And that's a decent guess I'd say, but you still fail at your first post.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:16 PM   #174
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

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Pretty sure you mean Gavin Smith, not Gavin Griffin. And that's a decent guess I'd say, but you still fail at your first post.
Indeed, on both counts
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:24 PM   #175
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Re: Tounament Hotshot Still Pooh Poohs Game Theoretic Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkMan View Post
i propose that "donkaments" shall henceforth be replaced by "tunaments", can i get a seconder
Yes!
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