at the risk of incurring demitri's wrath again, I'm a little confused here. Have I got this right?

- Joker steals from demitri by cashing out from roll
- Pays back/adds stolen money to MU
- Demitri moves him down in stakes, partly as punishment and partly to avoid deeper MU
- MU reaches around $8k?
- Demitri berates Joker, telling him to play shorter sessions and fewer tables and to drop down stakes again/ grind 180s to recoup MU
- Joker disappears and presumably cashes out ~$6k that remained in his account?
- Demitri gets mad and makes threats
- Demitri starts this thread, struggles to adequately explain his case and gets mad some more when people point out how bad he is at posting
- Joker denies stealing but admits "cashing out funds without authorisation" which is apparently different somehow?
- Consensus seems to be that Joker did indeed steal from demitri and does indeed owe money, but figure appears to be ~$15k and not "over $30k" as suggested in title?

If this is accurate, Joker kind of deserves the hate. Demitri's clearly not the most rational or articulate individual but he is after all the victim here.

What are you worrying about? Both you and I know that this won't end up in court

Hasn't he taken all the money from the account, so in effect wouldn't demetri have to stake him more money to have any chance of getting paid back? lol at this happening - money's lost, time to give Joker his due

when you do a stake it's manditory to give audit at anygiven time , why wouden't a player send it ? oky yea just because like you say if he's that crazy like this spammers say he is then why just don't send audit and get it done with it. Ofc this is just fooling around and players try to scam a decent guy.
So don't give up demetri you have rights!

Thank you for raising this point as it is one that many have missed.

you post in thread or I'll kill you...,
you say I am good guy...
otherwise your family will killed too,

Death threats were obv said in the heat if the moment and to put maximum pressure on Joker. Still questionable but hey, people overreact sometimes.

i had a horse who was systematically cashing out money from his account and when i caught it, he said "oh no, i am not stealing, i am just borrowing and will repay".

yeah. ok

It appears the whole Lithuanian scam community is present itt..

Its still pretty clear that joker stole a bunch from demtri and is muddieing the waters.

All the skype logs posted look like obv edits without the back and forth from both sides. If you look at the time stamps and what was said you can see there is a significant gap in time and some of the statements look like responses to something that has been said and left out.

Demtri I don't think you have done yourself favours with the whole 30k v 15k. Just clear it up once and for all (assume its 15k MU, money on accounts + 8k or w/e he stole)

Also has not been mentioned it seems but also could you clear up the non stars.com sites as at start of thread it was 15k on stars and other sites. Jokers defendent made some claims about those stakes being closed on ftp et al

Quite sickening that Jokueris will likely worm his way out of this purely because Demetri has trouble stringing coherent sentences together, no offence OP.

The thing that usually gets these scammers to pay is having 99% of 2+2 against them, this thread is the complete opposite with everyone looking to bash the guy who's been scammed, mostly because he doesn't speak great English, as I said before he's done himself no favors with his outbursts but common.

It's no wonder big scams are getting a lot more common when the community does nothing to dissuade scammers.


Why are you so inclined to believe a wall of text posted by a Lithuanian who reg'd 3 days ago but yet you ignore every screenshot posted in the thread. Surprising that rather than stand up for a fellow backer who's been scammed you want to bash him into the ground.

If Demetri is adding money to the money that's owed then obviously that is wrong & needs to be looked at but it's crazy you've chosen to completely ignore the original scam.

So you gonna kill him and everyone he knows or not?

What the hell is up with all the racism against Lithuanians?!

Lithuanians aren't a race... Jokueris is from Lithuania, so when a fellow Lithuanian signs up just to post is this thread and defend him, I don't give that post much merit, everyone else however has taken his post to be 100% true despite the fact he posted no screenshots to back up that wall of text chat he posted.

Hi everyone,

I am person from Lithuania who is working in the poker industry. Everything what I will say in this post is my personal observation and opinion after I’ve read all 2+2 thread. Because of that I’ve decided to stay anonymous and post it from the new account.
read first, then read again, then read again and again. and then read it!

Replace your first use of Lithuanian with another non race like e.g. Jews, or gays. It's discrimination. And everyone understands just fine where this thread is about. We just don't blindly believe everything that is being said by OP (nor JOKuERis for that matter), which is a healthy thing.

Your'e completely missing the point of my post, I'm merely stating that the guy who posted backing up which Jokueris is also from the same place Jokueris is from and only reg'd to the forum 2 days ago, personally that makes me less inclined to believe him. That's not me grouping all Lithuanians together and discriminating against them, it is also definitively not racist which you've just admitted in the post above so not sure why you called racism.

I'm not saying Demetri is 100% in the right and he has most definitely come across pretty bad in this thread, I'm just not sure why everyone is so intent on bashing him and ignoring the sole purpose of the thread which is to out a scammer.

I'm inclined to believe it because it's a well thought out, organized post that directly points to many gaps in Demetri's posts. It's easy to read from a non-english speaker. Easy to follow. Brings up many valid points. None of which Demetri has refuted. So, I guess the fact that Demetri hasn't said "THAT M*THRFCKR I NEVER SAID THAT!!" leads me to believe it's true. And since I have first hand knowledge of how he reacts to things and how he talks to people, it lines up absolutely perfectly with the pasted chat logs.

So far that post pointed out that the 7.xk that Demetri showed screenshots as money that was stolen was actually a conversation from nearly a year ago. The money was/wasn't paid back already? That's not 100% clear though the horse claims to be re-depositing immediately. But Demetri seems to want everyone to think this happened last week or something. This only proves that the horse did something very stupid quite awhile ago and may/may not have rectified the situation already. Since the stake continued, they obviously found some resolution over it.

Demetri claims the amount owed is "over 30k" but has been questioned over and over and seems to think it no longer matters. 15k, 30k meh, let's round it to 50k, sounds better for my case. Demetri hasn't explicitly shown his calculations for how he reached >30k stolen from him.

Demetri claims that there's makeup from other sites with signed contracts. Yet, the skype logs posted show that he was no longer backing him on those sites like he's claimed. Demetri hasn't refuted that either. Meaning he's lying in his OP again to make it look worse for the horse than it actually is. Unless, of course, he wants to refute those claims now.

Let me say this, I'm not defending JOKuERis one bit. If he took money out of the accounts, it's scummy, whether it was paid back or not, it's just wrong/dumb/immoral. If he hasn't returned stake money that was in the account that's wrong and he deserves all the negative attention. I know I'll never back him as a result of this thread.

It does seem like the issue isn't just outstanding makeup (which Demetri makes it seem like it's some massive amount. For the stakes horse was playing, EVERY player at these stakes would always reach this amount of makeup) and horse has probably done some dumb stuff along the way. Like I said, he deserves negative attention too. He deserves to be called a thief if he has taken cash out of the account that doesn't belong to him.

He just runs really good that his backer happens to be an even bigger clown than he is.

Please, racism/discrimination however you want to call it. I understand that you didn't mean to do this, but it comes across real badly.

My point was that it is a good thing on 2p2 that we don't automatically believe OP's/posters. And that is not 'ignoring the sole purpose of this thread which is to out a scammer', but it is to make sure that there is indeed been a scam, JOKuERis is a scammer, and therefore it is somehow justified that all of his personal information has been outed.

Amazing how someone who has likely been wronged is coming off worse than a potential scammer.

TBH Demetri, you have done a great job of creating enough confusion with your 'evidence' (please dont link that screenshot) that its really in doubt whether Joker has done anything other than disappear off skype for 5 days with 15k mu.

You have dealt with this so badly it would be comical, had you not spewed that crap in the skype chats about death threats.

Hiring a manager as was advised earlier would be a great idea for you, but for now I suggest using your contacts in the backing world to find another backer who is willing to approach Joker or another Lithuanian player who is in contact with him. Get a full audit up to now and a transfer history, and get someone who knows what they are doing to go through it. I know for a fact Zima knows someone who does this.

There seems to be reasonable people on both sides so if you can get them working together to prove an actual figure/timeline rather than just smacking the keyboard with your face and shouting at the moon you might be able to get a coherent resolution.

All you are doing at the moment (if indeed Joker is a massive thief) is creating enough doubt about your own sanity that he might easily be able to convince other people that you are just mental and be able to move on to scamming others. Considering this is the complete opposite of what, im sure, your original intentions with this thread were, then you have to take a step back and regroup.

Any percentages out there for the scammiest country in the world?

I agree, I think it's definitely a good thing 2+2 wants all the facts before releasing the lynch mob, however, from what I can see Demetri has posted more than enough proof that some sort of scam has occurred, the reason so many people are doubting Demetri is purely down to his literacy skills which I think is wrong.

Admittedly the figures owed are questionable and I agree that adding money to make the horse look worse is pretty low, just think some of the heat should be taken from Demetri and fired at Jokueris as it is pretty obvious a scam has taken place, whether it's for 30k 15k or 7k he's still a scumbag regardless and should be treated as so.

You really have it in for demetri, don't you?

Demetri's a bigger clown than a person that has clearly stolen from him, WTF?

Yeah sure Demetri could have gone about it in a better way but that does not excuse Joker's acts of stealing and deception.

What happened between you and Demetri? Did he take one of your horses away?

All I am interested in now is getting my money back and making sure he does not do this again

But the only way I can get my money back is by someone/me being at risk

I am not willing to do that ,but Joker seems to have a lot of fans now.So if someone is willing to back him he can start paying me back ASAP (pm me)

If not ,then GG to my money

Well spotted ,not hard though ah.Pretty obvious what his real problem is

That's quite the commitment your asking. Gl