Scammers should not be allowed to voice their opinion about other scammers...

That's actually a funny point, I do remember that too. People thought 200/400 was too small.

I think its time 2+2 community defined "scammer" at this point because it is being used incorrectly in many spots including this one.

Lets look at the definition of "scam".

scam: a dishonest scheme; a fraud."an insurance scam"
synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick.

We probably then need to define "scheme" because people will read this and say, "yeah, Tom's being dishonest, therefor he's a scammer".

scheme: a large-scale systematic plan or arrangement for attaining some particular object or putting a particular idea into effect.
"a clever marketing scheme"
synonyms: plan, project, plan of action, program, strategy, stratagem, tactic, game plan, course/line of action.

IMO by the definitions above in context with what occurred in the Durrrr challenge, Tom is NOT a scammer.

Scumbag for not paying or completing and continually dodging and stalling? Yes, absolutely.

Would you consider him a scumbag if he's broke or just a degenerate?

That seems to be the consensus that he's both broke and scum. Something about that doesn't seem to add up. If a salesmen who works on straight commission has the worst year of his life and can't honor his mortgage is he scum?

I understand the people who think he has money calling him scum (provided some of their other conclusions are correct).

If Tom came out and said, "look, I had the worst year of my life and can't pay but here's my plan..." then I think he would be looked at with a different regard.

However, this is not the case. He keeps dodging jungle, stalling and probably lying.

This is what makes him a scumbag. It's all opinion obviously but hey, this is NVG.

Exactly

[QUOTE=jungleman;44782656]I just am trying to be diplomatic to tom by not sharing a bunch of stuff he doesnt want me to, however he makes it difficult since his default response is being as difficult as possible

Being diplomatic has got you nowhere. The longer you stay silent the longer he will avoid you.

Meh, I doubt jungle has handled himself perfectly in any talks/negotiations seems harsh to make how Tom handles being in that spot a big priority. If his response was leave me the f alone while I get some things straightened out, yeah...yeah charge penalties whatever and it's just Durr being Durr and he's going to eventually get things handled I think SCUM is quite the reach especially considering where some of the mud slinging is coming from. If we're just speculating in all likelihood Durr is more ethical than 90%+ of long time high stakes gamblers.

If this was anybody but someone like Durrrr there would be a big thread on the front page of NVG saying " XXXXX is a SCAMMER!!!!!" <----- notice the lack of a question mark. The thread would also contain his phone #, address, families information, etc, etc.

Tom Dwan is 1 of the biggest reasons I got into poker, but this doesn't look good and has been going on for years.

Dwan agreed to the penalties then didn't pay them -- they weren't some random thing JM tried to force on him out of anger or spite. And how JM has handled himself is completely irrelevant. Being rude to someone in your debts doesn't absolve them from those debts, like wtf.

You really believe at some point he will finish the challenge and pay off the fines?

dwan should pay asap

+1 I voted no in the poll as well. Dwan will get things ironed out I am shocked at the poll numbers to be honest. People are jumping to quick conclusions and not giving Dwan the time and respect it is disgusting. Posters are quick to cast stones when in reality Dwan is a respectable member of the poker community and he will repay or settle this situation like an adult.

This is pretty much an oxymoron... not really diplomatic to tell everyone you have dirt on him

Such an obvious troll post

You honestly don't think Dwan is going to repay this? What is your reasoning behind your stance? When has Dwan ever scammed anyone in the past? To my knowledge Dwan hasn't scammed anyone before but I could be wrong.

I find it ironically some people are telling me it's time to not be nice as it's gotten me nowhere, and some are telling me I've behaved poorly at some point through this.

Should I, being 20 and living in my parents' basement when this challenge was started, have handled this perfectly? There are also many details that are sensitive regarding this for one reason for another that I cannot reveal.

As far as I can see Tom is being especially uncooperative at this point though. I don't know what I can do other than keep asking and reserving my temper as much as possible until I decide it's time to go into full spite mode.

As of now I owe Tom money and won't be giving him it until this is resolved or taking bets directly with him in the future. I personally believe his current equity in the challenge is around another -2.5m taking into account the side bet and rest of hands, and I believe that him prolonging it/not completing it costs me much more than the 375k I currently owe him. I'm still willing to talk to him regarding this but he has consistently proven to be completely unreliable regardless of his intentions. In addition, he ignores my texts, emails, phone calls, or talking through his friends (some of which he is slowly losing/has lost as friends).

Dan, that little smiley speaks louder than words. You say you have sensitive details you will not release, and then in your next post the smiley in response to kevmode implies that Tom has indeed scammed people.

You are fueling the fire that is NVG.

GG, Well played sir.

So when has Dwan scammed someone in the past? Spill the details please, NVG must know.

Thanks for replying in this thread you are a great poker mind and I enjoyed watching in the premier league. The way you digest hands is amazing and you were spot on in most of the hands. I just have one quick question do you think Dwan is going to ever pay you back? Gl in the future.

No need to explain yourself here jungle. Your only fault was to trust one of the most reputable pokerplayers at that time. Now you can sadly do nothing than hope for tom to man up and make things right.

Stop being a tease and tell us ... You're acting like a 5years old