Lol 9%. At least use a figure that's ballpark.

But yes, I pay about $1200 a month in health insurance for the family. That, PTO, sick leave, vacation, SEP's, self-employment taxes, etc., is just the nature of being self-employed. If you can't pick up the slack in those areas, regardless of the self-employed job you choose, then you shouldn't be doing it.

Start by making an intelligent comment. I did like your other post about the upfront honesty of the exploitative nature of poker as opposed to other careers that are covertly exploitative.

I don't know what low-to-mid stakes players do regarding their taxes.

so you like my post about exploitation yet I haven't made an intelligent comment? Time to join the ignore list.

The game of poker is way too hard today, even GREAT players go broke all the time. And 80K a year is depressing? 95% of poker professionals would be satisfied if you told them they would be making 80k this year

I thought the exploitation post was correct but kinda poorly written and obviously nothing new to me. Your first post was the 1 in a billion post; I just didn't want that to be the only thing I addressed in your post in order to reduce the dick factor in the frankness of my response.

I've been supporting a wife and 2 kids playing high-stakes poker since 2002, and I left a 6-figure career for it (where I started at about $27K, so your prospective corporate promotions are also incorrect); I think you could learn more from me than I from you regarding this topic, so I don't care if you place me on ignore, ldo.

Lots of liars and tax cheaters in this thread. These 2+2 streets are unsafe for me to post on anymore. I am out of this cesspool before I go back to a life of crime. I don't want all you bad people rubbing off on me.

I said his number was low. He could have even said a lower % and I would have just used that.

For the simple reason of not wanting to spark another 5+ pages from the peanut gallery encouraging people not to pay their taxes, that I would have had to skim through.

--

Smart HS regs are in a completely different place vs low mid stakes guys. ie the super smart guys made a ton, invested it in things outside of poker, and also their income/expenses ratio is a lot bigger than that of a low mid stakes grinder.

A grad couldnt do what I do so that isnt an issue but of course in any job things can change and you can end up out of work. I could argue that poker might be made illegal so it isnt a good living but that is clearly quite unlikely so isnt a great argument.

I never said a poker player was any better or worse than a salesman, mecahnic or whatever but even a car salesman gives you something for your momey. It might be crap or not what you want or more than you could really afford but you get something. In order to win at poker someone else has to lose. It is a zero sum game and that is a fact.

Morally you should pay taxes because people working real jobs pay taxes to help support those that need government assistance, and for other reasons (city employee salaries, city repairs, ect.).
Realistically most poker players and businesses don't lay the full amount. Mathematically it doesn't make sense for businesses. If they get audited, the audit only goes 5 years back. If you've been cheating on taxes for 10 years you come out on top the CBA for businesses is there to smudge up the books.
Taxes are a moral question pertaining to societal standards. There is no right answer. By law you're required to pay. But everyone will have a different opinion on it due to their own circumstances.

What's this seclusive job of yours?

Zero-sum game does not mean it's a con or that people don't get something for their losses.

A car salesmen raping a guy for redic financing, warranties, insurance etc., is getting **** for his money.

If the IRS finds fraud, they can go back as far as they want. Obviously not reporting income is tax fraud, so the statue can be tolled.

Lol beat me to it

Ive never paid taxes and im 27 lol. I am canadian though, pretty sure ill never have to pay anything. in 2011 i had 200k go thru my account and they didnt seem to care. Its much better up here, no greedy ****y IRS. Its nonsensical to pay tax up here too, i couldnt really beat the game for a reasonable sum nowadays if I had to pay tax. I couldnt imagine being american and losing 30% on tournies and who knows how much from cash games.

I worked at car dealership for little over 10 years, one of the largest Toyota dealership in midwest outside of Chicago. What you said on here can not be more wrong. A car salesmen is like a person in military, he/she join the military not because they love their country so much rather thats what they felt that was the best option they had at that time of their life or they thought so. Most sales person I know struggling each month to paid their bills like many other in retail business in U.S. Let me give you a example: You show up at dealership want to buy a new Camry LE. before you even step on the lot YOU already talked to your neighbor and your cousin and your co worker and your wife your dog, and then you spend 200 hours online checked KBB blue book yellow book black book consumer report, then you checked BBB for dealer reputation after repeat this for six month finally you are at my dealer parking lot. I fight through eight sales person at front door to be the first person to said hi to you with big smile and you said I am just looking. After you used restroom and took a bag of free popcorn and cup of coffee I followed you around the whole dealership then you said to me do you guys have on sale going on? I tried to use the most polite voice possible with excitement say to you YES WE DO! Then I asked you what do you have in your mind? you said I am just looking. After walked back to parking lot before you almost got back in your Ten years old Corolla you said to me can i test drive a Camry? I then told you what a great choice! Let me make a copy of your DL and moved four cars that blocked the silver Camry LE bring it to your foot steps this all after 10 minutes you said to me why took you so long( I wanna punch your face) but I apologized to you. After 3 miles we back to the dealership you asked me do you have a business card i said no i dont. We stood at parking lot for about ten more minutes you finally agree come inside to look at some numbers. Lets just used a round number to make things easier. Stick price is $20k, dealer invoice is $18k. You asked me what is your best price, I said let me take some info from you and talk to my manager. You again tell me I am just looking today, I assured you no problem Mr. My manager told me dont let this MF get away, I tell him I am try my best( I wanna punch his face) I came back with $18499+ RIGHT NOW on a piece of paper. You jump out of your chair told me NO NO NO I am out of here. I chased you to your car you said to me Thats just ridiculous! Then I found out you saw a ad sale New Camry for $16995, I got you back at my desk and put out that ad from local news paper or online explained to you if your are in military $500 discount college grad $400 dealer rebate $500 so we are same price as other dealer if you qualify all those which you dont. my manager came then after you been at dealer for 3 hours we are agree at $17000+. Shake hand take the new car prep for delivery you said WAIT! i have a trade in, your ten years old car with 200k miles rusted dented smelly a/c not working window not working needs new tires new muffler but you want $3k because its Toyota, my manager said $1k, you said $2500 or you will walk. After you been at dealership 5 hours finally agree your trade $2000, $17000-2000=$15k+fees Tax tittle plates, After you were at finance office for other 1.5 hour because you wanna keep your payment under $300 a month even your credit score is 650. The 6th hours had passed you came to me said where is my new car? I kissed your ass and shake your hand gave you the car key with full tank of gas and my manager saids to me to follow you to your home 35 miles away because you were just looking so did not bring your trade in tittle, if i dont get that i wont get paid. 8 hours later from our first greeting i am back at dealer my manger told me GREAT JOB! My commission is $100 mini deal because we sold to you under invoice. Three weeks later at saturday morning meeting my GM reading all the customer survey from Toyota, you gave me 35% satisfy from 100% because you felt i was too pushy you were just looking that day and Oh we were way too slow. I wanna punch your face my managers face the owners face so badly.

I guess you don't need to learn paragraphs at car dealers.

Jesus, dude. Holy Wall O Text. I know the GM of a major dealership, so I know how that **** works. Maybe you should move into finance or only handle used sales so you can pad super high and rape on the options so when you get grinded down, you're still making a mint from the guy whose car you basically stole on a trade in. Besides, I wasn't really singling out one occupation.

95% of the people I know would be thrilled to make 80K doing anything. The median personal income in the US is around 40K.

As shocking as it may be to you, some of us obey the law just because we are supposed to. I didn't drink alcohol underage, I have never taken or even tried an illegal drug, I don't drive over the sleep limit (even when it's 25) and I declare small amounts of cash income.

There are some people that don't break the law and you know it.

As much as I love poker, I have to agree with this post.

When I decided to play poker full-time, it was a decision that my wife and I disussed. But my situation wasn't typical. I was 50 years old. I had a history of making money doing it part-time. We had a lot of things already in place.

I was retired military and would receive monthly retirement pay starting at age 60. My wife had worked and put money toward retirement since age 16. She worked a a hospital with great insurance and a health savings plan. We were covered for medical, perscriptions and dental.

Outside of the military I had a very spotty work history. At least ten (yes, 10) of my former employers had moved or closed, and I didn't have a lot of other great options. My wife makes enough that we could get by while I studied, practiced and built a bankroll. So most of what you wrote doesn't apply to me.

That said, sometimes it is the right decision. There are players who dropped out of college or gave up lucrative corporate careers to play poker and are doing very well. Vanessa Rousso is one example.

She finished high school early, then got an economics degree in 2.5 years. She was in law school and was making lots of money playing poker at night before she dropped out.

If you are as motivated, smart and talented as Rousso and you're a winning player, you might be able to make a go of it. If not, the above post is pretty good advice.

Would you say that you're representative of most people in this country, or not?

It's also rather noticeable that you didn't even attempt to address what we're discussing, which is whether or not 2p2'ers pay taxes on low stakes poker winnings.

Ever play any raked games outside of a casino...

OK, I guess I wasn't clear.

1. Whether or not I am representative of most people in the country is not relevant. As another poster stated, not reporting or underreporting income is illegal. But there is definitely an "everyone does it" undertone in this thread. In fact, I think some people in this thread are right on the line between talking about how many cheat and advocating cheating.

2. Yes, just as I claimed $50 from playing a restaurant gig with a band, I also claimed my rather small winnings when I started out playing $1 and $3 SNGs. Actually I broke even the first calendar year, but as a part-time player I couldn't deduct any of my net loss tournaments. I had to report all of my $75 in cashes.

It's very relevant. You were crystal clear, except you don't appear to be understanding what we're discussing. The question is how many people who play low-stakes poker for a living declare their income. The answer is virtually none, regardless of the fact that you claim to be the exception.

My only issue is how would you know? Virtually none is quite the claim, and when I read such hyperbole, I assume it's what a person currently does or would do if they were in those shoes.

I'm not going to profess to never having smoked weed, drank a beer in high school or sped in a vehicle, but I haven't committed any felonies.

The bolded is actually pretty unlikely. Try thinking about it for a bit. It's not exactly difficult to do something that rises to the level of a felony. However, that's irrelevant; again, we're not talking about this, we're talking about who pays taxes and who doesn't.

If you believe my claims are hyperbole, you clearly know no one who claims to play professional poker, nor do you read any such threads on this site, because what you're arguing is almost nonsensical. You cannot possibly believe that your average 22 year old on this website playing 1/2 or 2/5 NL in casinos or underground poker rooms is paying taxes on what they make. Give me a break, seriously.

Also, trying to deflect with your moronic sentence that makes this about me is a joke. No, it's not what I currently do; I'm not a poker pro nor have I ever been one. And, no, I don't currently cheat on my taxes nor do I work off the books, milk the system, etc.