chip always said he never played tournaments bec he never saw the value in them. just cash games. Only started playing more tourneys later in the last few yrs of his life. One of them being the inaugural 50k HORSE event which he won it's first yr.

Yes, there are more card games than gin rummy and poker, but I'm saying that I'd like to see another person who was as good as Stuey in any two card games. If there's not, then it's not a stretch to say he was the best card player ever. He was the undisputed best player in gin rummy, and he has an unmatched record in tournament poker. No one will likely ever again win 1/3 of the big buy-in tournaments they enter (assuming they enter more than just a few). Even the best players would be happy to win 1/3 of the final tables they reach, let alone entire tournaments.

yes but u got to agree that hes overated at poker cuz i died like that. Its like if gus died now

clearly he was the man and i dont know how you can say he was "overrated" at poker.

Ok this is like the 10th time ive read this......back it up.

Ive read Stueys book, etc. and I have NEVER heard this. The only thing I heard was towards the end of his life when he was totally wasted on drugs he was a fish at the tables at THAT time.

I want proof that all the old pros thought he was a cash game fish, before drugs got a hold of him.

[x] Proof or never happened.

When did I claim that? Bringing up Hellmuth in a Ungar discussion.......congrats on your fail!

In a 2+2 Pokercast (#48) as well as an interview in Harrington on Cash, Bobby Hoff said that Ungar was hopeless in full ring games and cheap games, and great in shorthanded games.

On his site, Barry Greenstein wrote: "Stuey was a hopeless steamer. Over his playing career he may not have been an overall winner in the side games and he often needed to be staked when he played."

Ray Zee says (Pokercast #34) that he loved to play NLHE with Ungar, as he was really live in the cash games and lost a lot of money. He says Ungar was excellent at pot-limit Stud 8, though. He also implies that he's taking Stu's pre-drugs time period into account.

Not saying this is a solid proof, as how can there really be any, but these are some respected players specifically discussing Ungar's cash game play.

There weren't a lot of big tournaments back then. Just WSOP and Superbowl of Poker. That's why Chip focused on cash games.

Stu's rep back then in Vegas was he was a great tourney player and shorthanded player. Because he played full ring games like he was in a heads up game they would build the games around him as he did not adjust his play.And he was a loser in those games.

Doyle over the years as also written that he would NOT consider Stu in his all-time poker top 10 list. I remember on another site (RGP I believe) after Stu died Doyle was critical of him and posted that info.

Stu was alot like Jack Straus and Everett Goosley in that you would not want them heads up but would welcome them in a full game. If they only adjusted their game they may have dominated as they had the talent but alas never adjusted.

Maybe cause Stuey owned Doyle in heads up?.....mmmmmm

Or because he felt there were 10 better all-around players perhaps?

How much coke was he doing/buying?

Was it non-stop throughout the day the second he woke up?

Perhaps.

...Lol!

Everyone nuthugs Doyle...**** that redneck and his cowboy hat. Him and Hoyt can give each other reach arounds.

So I'll assume you're going to ignore the Bobby Hoff and Ray Zee comments, since every single person who played with Ungar and didn't consider him the greatest who ever lived in every form of poker is either lying, jealous or senile?

Yes, I know, he never made a bad call, never lost a hand unless somebody sucked out on him, never even had a losing session until the last year or so of his life when he was wasted on coke. It's shocking that anybody would ever even play with him.

Bobby Hoff and Ray Zee....?

Let me just say....

Well, if you're not going to value the opinion of Bobby Hoff, I guess I won't waste any more of your time.

one of the stories is that they were all sitting around talking about grams and 8 balls and stuey pulled out a huge wad of cash and threw it on the table saying "fu** it, why not just get a kilo". In his book or wherever i read he said he'd never do that again bec ppl went thru it like a pack of hayenas. Pretty sure he would just go until he couldn't stay awake anymore, held up in hotel rooms free basing with hookers. i know he had bouts of sobriety but they didn't last long. Maybe a few weeks or even months at a time. But he was hooked on crack once he couldn't snort anymore. One of the tourneys they found him face down from an od during a tourney. So from all that I"m sure it was a daily thing for him. Just wild crazy benders spent on hookers and blow

THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GOES I >>>>>>>>>> We all have addictions. I have seen lives destroyed by religion, families, etc. The question of whether Stu was a loser or winner can best be answered by his constant struggle to right himself.

Thug??

definitely a winner, can't say he isn't

sick bump

you will never convince a forum like this he was a brilliant player , they cannot see past his degenerate side .

fyp

he was the first LAG. he should be given some props for that, but he's not GOAT.