They wouldn't be violating the UIGEA if they accepted Crypto deposits ONLY from Americans...

Why not do that and open back up to the States?

PokerStars (Isai Scheinberg) entered an agreement back in the Black Friday days that prohibited Stars from ever providing services to the US again. They have circumvented that by partnering up with brick and mortar casinos in the US, but I doubt they want to strain the goodwill of the government any further.

Isn't partnering up with "brick and mortar Casinos" entering the US Market again?

I'm confused...

The United Nations passed a new resolution that prevented "disruption of Internet access." This should override the US Government deal with Isai. It's the US Government's decision to prevent Americans from logging onto Pokerstars anymore. That may have been true when Isai made that deal, but the circumstances have changed. Many Courts would probably rule prevention of access to Pokerstars as a "disruption of Internet access."


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Yes, it was a compromise they made in agreement with the government to be able to re-enter. I doubt Stars will ever do anything in the US again that is even a tiny bit shady or grey area, ever.

I edited my last post. The United Nations ruling should override the deal Isai made with the US Government...The US Government is not allowed to block access to websites anymore. This qualifies as a "disruption of Internet access."


https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/4/12...nternet-access

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You don't have to block the site, you just sue and personally prosecute everyone involved into submission.

PokerStars wasn't sold because the US temporarily blocked access to their website but because Bitar, Scheinberg and a bunch of others face long jail times.

The issue with Isai doesn't override United Nations Resolutions.

The United Nations Resolution overrides the agreement with Isai. If the USA keeps blocking access to Pokerstars, they'll continue to be in Violation of this UN Resolution. Players can file Class Action Lawsuits against the Federal Government citing this UN Resolution and get all these prior agreements overturned.

The Legal situation has changed since these Deals with these previous site operators were signed.


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So, Stars could either:

1) Continue doing business as they are, with hopes to expand to other states as they get regulated; or
2) They could pull out of all those deals, start offering poker in the US again, try to avoid the US seizing their funds or otherwise disrupting their business, and if that happens...appeal to the UN? And of course they'd also have to be concerned whether doing such a thing would cause them any problems elsewhere - do other countries think twice about allowing Stars when they seem them take action like this?

Also - the U in UIGEA stands for Unlawful.

https://www.fdic.gov/news/news/finan.../fil10035a.pdf

So, I believe they view offering online poker without state regulation to be illegal, with or without the UIGEA.

In the end, I guess Stars has decided to take the easier route to a few states, with the hope for more.

News Flash: The US is a sovereign country, and this matter isn't nearly as cut-and-dry as you seem to think it is. They certainly think nothing of flouting WTO rulings, so I don't know why this resolution would be an issue for them.

From your linked article:

Also, the US never blocked anyone's access to Stars or any other site. They seized their domains. Of course sites can get around this, and do, so blocking people from Internet sites has never had anything to do with why sites choose not to take US players. In other words, this resolution, even were it legally enforceable, changes nothing.

This thread is a good example of why taking free legal advice from anonymous people on an internet message board is an awful idea. Every post in this thread except by Bobo Fett is completely inane and idiotic and generally wrong.

This applies to all of you except Bobo:

The US isn't preventing people from accessing pokerstars. They are preventing people from gambling on pokerstars, and from pokerstars allowing people to gamble. They aren't blocking website access,

even a broken clock is right twice a day

w/o getting into too much details, TSG (which owns PS) is already back in the US. online poker in two states with big plans for sports betting in various other states (Fox sports deal).

they would be dumb to risk this massive opportunity (not to mention they are not longer a private company on the IOM AND that cryptocurrency isn't a loophole for the UIGEA anyway).

on top of all that, they would likely get into trouble with the UKGC plus online poker in the USA right now, isn't even close to the wild days pre BF.

no hating, but we should have a massive thread where all ideas like this (how to run a poker room, the best variant ever ... ) are collected as a handy guide for upcoming entrepreneurs

maybe i'm wrong, but there are 720 combinations and everyone is hit twice a day. while coming up with genius plans to save online poker is more like a monkey on a typewriter situation

Here's a valuable addition to that future thread/guide: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...ome-casino-22/

ah, yes the glory of tworooks

You are wrong to think they are interested in non-licensed poker in the US markets, wrong to think that ...... ____________________________ fill in the blank.

That's why they don't do that, counselor.

I think someone once posted an idea about a poker-themed hotel, but I can't quite remember the details.

lolz.

total self promotion, but I respectfully submit this for inclusion into aforementioned poker entrepreneur guide. free money for someone. clearly best biz idea ever posted on 2+2

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/free-business-idea-service-wsop-players-1536088/?highlight=free


regarding OP..... because that would damage?/ruin?/end? their regulated business around the world. I guess they decided it would be a bad idea to damage?/ruin?/end? their regulated business around the world.

UN resolutions carry zero weight.

US gov't is sovereign, only a treaty signed and accepted by a 2/3rs vote of Congress would change that.

That's an awfully high bar; perhaps I can get there one day.

Nor should you try to.

The only thing that actually matters here - is that clearing banks that provide merchant accounts to Gaming companies - will pull your merchant accounts if you work with crypto. The national / country / US etc doesn't matter - all that matters is that if you are a regulated business & you even think about working with crypto - the banks & merchant account providers will shut down your accounts.

That doesn't happen with Americas Cardroom...

They've been doing business with Crypto for YEARS without issues. I don't see why it would be any different with Stars.


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From June 2019:

https://www.usbets.com/nj-regulator-...ites-monmouth/

"One topic produced agreement across numerous panelists: cryptocurrency isn’t coming to the mobile sports betting industry anytime soon.

Rebuck said that as long as the U.S. federal government doesn’t recognize cryptocurrency, 'It’s not going to happen in New Jersey.'”

https://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/director.htm

Devilfish is 100% correct.

Banks are very cautious of gambling money, it's considered very high risk, the banks need to rely heavily on the clients AML checks and running a big gaming client is likely 4-5x the work of running a big retail client. Banks also hate crypto - currency, its unregulated and there is no precedent for how to properly conduct your AML checks. People think banks hate crypto because its a competition for them, it's nothing to do with that, banks hate it because it's an AML bomb-scare and basically any customer processing and large amount of crypto could never be worth the AML fine exposure they bring with them.

I used to run a gaming business, and had 2 banks shut down and some license issues when i tried to take crypto deposits, and I was operating in mostly unregulated markets. Imagine going to US bank, and saying Im a gaming business that takes crypto, It's NEVER, EVER happening. People dont understand just how hard it is to find banking without crypto for gaming businesses, Bet365 for example, have been shut down from every bank in the UK bar one, if you aren't taking them as a customer who the hell are you taking.

This is before you even consider the impact it would have on the license agreements they have in some states, I dont know for a fact but I know in the UK it's against the UKGC rules to take crypto, and its the same in many other independently regulated countries. I had licenses in Malta and Curacao and whilst they allowed it, the banks stopped me from doing it in any remotely above board method - we're a long way from seeing crypto being using as a deposit method for big operators I believe, between the regulators, the banks and the operators themselves, no one is really that motivated to push it through. ACR (and my business tbh) would be ideal people to use crypto to bend around rules and navigations, if you're a small company then you can do it, but even I had trouble.

Strategically also, it makes no sense, Amaya have shown repeatedly that poker is not the focus of there long term strategy, they are a sports-betting brand now, everything they do shows this. The acquisition of sky bet and betfair, the strategic partnership with ceasers, they want to be in the USA offering sports betting. They are close to being the biggest book-making operator in the world, that was the long term Amaya strat and they won't be doing poker in the USA if there's a 1% chance of any backlash into those plans.

Sorry, but that makes no sense...If ACR can do it post Black Friday, then so could Stars.

I don't understand what you're saying about banks getting shut down. If you're dealing in Crypto there's not a bank storing player's funds. It's all in Crypto.