re-draw was to his advantage. they said they were gonna re-draw they didn't.

At the end of day 1 in an earlier event there were 41 players left with 40 getting paid. They said we are playing till 1 am. At 1 am there were still 41 players left. We took a vote whether to play it out till the money or end now. Which happened? Option C everyone put in 20 bucks to give to 1 of the guys in the tourney and the floor just took his stack away. What kind of ridiculous tourney decisions do these guys make.

Lol.. Article Seemed like he had a chance to object and didn't.

QF 1/2 or 2/5

Seems like Melville was pressured not to object, but either way the floor should've had the integrity to not put him in that situation in the first place. If he knew the night was ending, his last few folds were strategic & he was entitled to a redraw just like every other player.

that's absurd

This doesn't make it ok. Maybe he didn't understand that he was being disadvantaged or the degree to which he was being disadvantaged. Maybe he didn't understand that once the floor has announced that play is ending in 4 hands that has to be binding and he's within his rights to demand it. Maybe he did understand all of this but was too lazy or intimidated to assert his rights. It's the job of the floor to make sure that even if any or all of the above are true he is treated fairly.

Another part of this that no one is considering is that Melville wasn't the only person disadvantaged by this ruling. The moment they decide to keep playing without redrawing, the equity of most of the players in the tournament goes up while the equity of the biggest 1-3 stacks at each table goes down (because the bubble favors the bigger stacks in the field and the expected number of hands to be played on the bubble has just decreased). Even if in this case it's pretty small, letting this sort of thing happen is an assault on the integrity of the tournament. Based on the stories I keep hearing coming out of Foxwoods, it doesn't seem like the floor staff understand that it is their job to preserve the fairness of the tournaments that they run.

Thanks for the input champ. Must be an easy road to 2500+ posts with garbage spew such as this. I'd think you would have more after 4 years.

Chill out, FideI is trying to get the Google spiders onto Foxwoods + cheating

It's the floors responsibility to make sure everyone knows what's going on and I think they should be more transparent in these situations for sure. But at the same time the floor can't read minds so it's up to you the player to speak and not just blind agree to anything.. All parties seem partly to blame: any player who put himself at a disadvantage but agreed to do so, any bullying or intimidating from other players, and floor possibly not controlling and/or not being transparent about the situation.
although I wasn't there so probably don't know the situation well enough

Not only that, short stacks like Cornell cimpan were forced to pay both blinds rather than redraw as had been originally announced.

The whole thing was ludicrous. They were going to stop at 28 , during hand for hand, then redraw
4 7 handed tables for day four while still in hand for hand, then redraw again at 27.

I've never seen a redraw anywhere during hand for hand. The placement of the button and who has to post blinds is too critical in these spots to ever redraw.

Ya, this too. My first reaction when I saw this story was "that can't be right, why would you redraw with 28 players left?"

I read Jason Mercier's tweets about the incident, then saw charder disagree with what happened..I would like to hear his version with what happened

My apologies.

I don't think it's fair to expect everyone to know the the rule that the player "can object to this change of how long to play" when:

a) it is not clear that the player had a right to do this;

b) this alleged rule is not written anywhere.

When a tournament administrator is running a tournament, the player shouldn't be forced to analyse every decision that the administrator makes for the impact on his tournament equity.

lol some people are just making stuff up

- dude wasnt some random clueless amateur, hes been around, he know what was going on.

- it wasn't clear whether we were redrawing at 28 or at 27 or both, had it just been 27, the point would be moot.

- He wasn't not at all pressured to keep playing, he was ok with continuing playing

- no one else objected, had anyone objected the day would have been over

- Jason was out of line, he was voicing his displeasure despite not being in the tourney and no one objecting (fwiw Jason is a good friend of mine and has a piece of me in the tourney)

-I talked to Jason about it, and he has definitely stepped back a little bit in his stance

- I cant reiterate enough, the guy was not pressured at all, we basically let the decision be up to him whether to play, and he new what was going on.

-Foxwoods floors are still terrible

no

Why is this relevant?

It really has nothing to do with him and he ended up yelling at a player who told him to stay out of it, If it was a random dude who was acting as Jason he would have been escorted out

seriously, NO ONE was taking advantage of the short stack player, to be honest, we thought we were doing him a favor.

allowing the short stack to decide lets him redraw if he's close to the BB and play on if he's OTB/LP, once you make the decision to play X hands and redraw you can't go back on it because it has affected play and equities for the whole field. big stacks will have an edge for however many hands it takes Alistair to bust out or run up his stack, many people inevitably will not understand they are being put in a -ev situation by playing on and allow it to happen unfairly.

Short derail here, but want to share my floor experience at Foxwoods.

In a weekend tourny:

After a huge pot between the two chipleaders I get HU with 20k chips at 4k/8k (other guy has about 400k)

After he scoops the gigantic pot he says to me, "do you want to stop?" Surprised by the question I ask him if he means chop, to which he replies no, just stop, I get first and you get second. I laugh and say he must be joking, and he says no really. I am completely caught off guard and the dealer and floor are both watching but not saying anything.

The CL was obvious a Foxwoods reg (talking with staff, dealers by first name). So I am laughing at how ridiculous it is to be asked that question and I turn to the director and say, "give up? so he wins and I take second? Does this happen here?"

To which the floorman replies, "yeah, all the time."

Thought the question by CL was messed up enough, but that the floor saying that was just totally absurd.

(If curious, I jammed next hand and dude woke up with TT. I didnt hit and he says something snidy about how I couldve saved time)

never playing at FW again

Everything goes at foxwoods, aside from cell phone use and food at the tables. That seems to be the only thing they take seriously

My bad for making it get cheated ON

Anyway the eventual discussion was that the FW floor keeps bending rules in general and none of the pros are happy about this. This shows in the turnout, as this tournament used to be the biggest stop on the wpt tour and now it's like the joke of the tour

fwiw i hear horror stories about this cell phone thing but i busted at the end of day 2 and i used my phone all day long both days with nothing said to me, even with the floors right behind me talking to someone at my table.

that being said i still didn't have a great experience and probably wouldn't go back for a 6 day 180 man 10k (but probably would for a bigger field lower buyin)