in ireland and britain gambling winnings are tax free.

there is a 3% charge on betting (ireland)on aports/racng etc, but because of competition the companies just absorb it

I feel bad for anyone who hasnt paid taxes on their earnings... The us government will find out you got paid and audit you... I think this is the whole point of this whole damn thing.. they want more and back income taxes from citizens... I created an LLC to put the money in but I don't know if Quick tender, is affected

As I (and others) have repeatedly reiterated in response to your repetitive (and senseless) posts, we understand that IF the US gets their way, the stuff will be seized. What I think YOU are not understanding is that this outcome is EXTREMELY unlikely and will take a LONG time to come to fruition. This is why there is no use in worrying about this at the present moment. You can sue anybody for any amount of money if you want, but that does not mean you will be successful. The same thing applies here for the US in their criminal/civil proceedings.

I know my money isnt safe. I just hope Howard Lederer get 5-10 years in the Federal Pen, and I think its money well spent. Ivey I hope beats the case by a technicality, but Lederer, through him under the jail.

Do you realize how little sense this makes? The DoJ is actually *enforcing* the laws that are in place; it is PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and the processor companies that are violating the law, and have been for years. The DoJ continues to be restrained by the US Constitution.

Now if you don't agree with the law, that's fine, and I'm with you. However what you stated above is as nonsensical as spitting on your local policeman for enforcing an ordinance he had nothing whatever to do with implementing.

I dont think they can..but can lead these sites to go bankrupt directly affecting every player because ultimately they go dead no one is seeing a dime

yeah since the beginning of april, party poker stocks got dumped. so are you saying there were insiders that knew but those 11 people or founders or owners of stars, tilt, and cereus didn't know what was going on?

They do get to have their day in court you know. Even in the USA, people are presumed innocent till proven guilty. And they can afford a very expensive legal team.

Short of getting the payment processors to roll, how does the DOJ prove the sites themselves were involved in these "shady" transactions.

Well apart from the fact that they're not trying to seize all earnings - just earnings from US customers - they can't (legally) seize assets which aren't in America. Different areas of the US government have in the past ignored international law so it doesn't mean they won't try of course.

If they really want to destroy the sites they're more likely to use the part of the indictment which mentions that they can seize money equivalent to the value of any parts which are outside of their jurisdiction.

I think it's most likely that the 3bn initial figure and all the other stuff is just a high bargaining point to enable them to extort the maximum fine possible.

And aren't the individuals the one's charged anyway - not the company?
So isn't the worst case scenario PS and FTP being sold off to sites like Party and 888?

(1)They are gonna throw their lower ppl under the bus, pay a huge fine and either get prevented from ever running in US again or atleast for a very long time. (2)Then Congress will prob get a poker bill passed and online will get regulated in the US or banned which I doubt tho

Somewhere between 1+2 we get our money back, pretty much when the Gov't tells FTP and PS that they can (probably <1yr-3months)

How is this bad for party/bwin in any form or shape

Well these owners could have known...these owners could have lowered the market price significantly just like the movie wallstreet and then bought up all the stock when it tanked

As big as these site are you had better believe that they will find someone to roll over. Offer them immunity and let them keep some of their money, and it will be a foot race for who gets to snitch first.

this is such a joke. where does the US Govt get off being the morality police

I'm guessing closer to 18mo to 2yrs. The NY DoJ normally won't make a move like they did unless they have an Extremely strong case. I look for a plea within 6 months.

Income tax is very much a secondary issue here.

The whole point is to get rid of the competition so that Harrah's and Wynn can monopolize the US market, with the the Feds taking several pieces of the pie (campaign contributions, under the table money, regulation fees ...).

Sure, the DOJ typically spends 3 years and millions of dollars putting high profile cases like this together so they can just drop the charges and look incompetent.

yeah, sure.

Read the indictment, the evidence seems overwhelming. This case seems like a slam dunk.

And if the DOJ get what they asked for, those poker sites will cease to exist.

They will be GONE.

When does the trial start?

And to respond to your "chips" theory.. when you buy into a poker tournament do you buy in with chips? No. It says the USD amount to buy in, you are paying CASH to buy into tournaments.

People, yes. (sort of, unless you're in Gitmo).

Money? Definitely not. Go do some reading on civil forfeiture. They just TAKE the money. Then it's up to YOU to prove you're entitled to get it back.

And in this case, I'd have to assume that Stars and FTP and AB are going to roll over and (at a minimum) provide transaction records.

That's gonna be a rude shock for people who haven't paid the correct taxes.

I guess you don't know your history really well. The original intent of coming here was to excape religious persecution, so Americans have tried to bemoral police since before the country was a country.

Ok let me explain this nice and slowly for you.
The accounts on the internet, do NOT MATTER. Your PokerStars and FT poker accounts are completely unrelated. When you deposit money into your account, that money has to go in to a real life bank account.
Poker sites operate differently, some sites will :

1) Operate 2 bank accounts, one for the general funds and profits they recieve from the site. One for player funds, thus protecting all of the players money as the account is in no way shape or form attached to the business operations itself and no profits made from it.
2) Operate a single bank account where player money and general profits and funds are stored, this is NOT protected, the account is attached to the business. So if it was to go bankrupt, or the account was seized, all money would be classed as belonging to the business.

The DoJ does not care if FT operate as said in example number two, they will take it all without considering the customers money and it will all go towards the 3billion they are requesting.
So you better be hoping the sites you play on really do care about you and have segregated player money from their business account. For more information on this, read a page or two back somebody posted a similar quote from a FAQ on a license website.

Just to make it clear again : YOUR INTERNET ACCOUNT DOES NOT HOLD ACTUAL REAL MONEY, THE POKER COMPANY OWNS YOUR MONEY IN A REAL BANK ACCOUNT.

FULL TILT and POKER STAR WIll BE FINE.. The US citizens who have recieved large chunks of money from FT as PS are ****ED... You will be audited and fined
Your money is safe but you will have lawyers to pay and fines for tax evasion and back taxes... That is the whole point of this... God help those who didn't claim winnings on their profits. It's all about getting income tax from us.
If your wondering how i know this... I have ESPn

if they are going to waste all this money going after these three sites and all the processors they might as well just go all the way and regulate it...

people who steal money on wall st. >>>> poker players trying to feed their families/play casually

lol USA

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Its a good thing I can't play right now because the level of ignorance from all the haters in this thread is incredibly tilting...