Agreed.

I'm not involved in this - ROW player - but I am (or at least was) a member of the PPA and have a shirt to prove it.

I have to say, after reading a lot of the recent threads, the PPA board/execs/whatever posting here are doing themselves no favours at all.

This poll is pretty stupid to say the least.

And you are redefining 'defensive attitude'.

Zero chance the DOJ is dipping into other funds to pay out player points.

Another question worth asking is: would players approve of their balances being partially pro-rated in order to pay out FTP points.

(Disclaimer: I have four figures on FTP, but few if any player points, so I may be biased. Id be curious to see how others in this thread stack up in terms of cash/points on FTP)

just get the cash. the points are still sitting in our accounts, the cash isn't. anyone who has enough points to care that much can put in the work to relocate and claim them.

Considering the time it will take them to ever pay out the balances, how much time do you think it would take to payout points???? Until they figured that out, the dollar probably isnt even worth the paper its printed on anymore..

Jesus Christ some you are absolutely horrendous with the criticism. Even though I have 6k stuck on ftp, it's hard for me not to hope that Rick/Skall/Xanadu all quit and FTP remission and US online poker go down the tubes. You all are lazy, ungrateful, entitled pieces of **** and don't deserve a single cent.

I don't know enough about the situation to come down strongly on either side of this argument, but I'm aware that the question is not "Should FTP points be included?".

There are any number of things players might think should be included, but that doesn't equate to players wanting the PPA to ask for those things on their behalf.

I think the poll should read:

How long are you willing to delay receiving your cash balance if you also receive compensation for your points:

1) Zero. I want my money now, if it means nothing for the points, fine.
2) Six months, maximum. I want something in the next 6 months; if I can't have points by then, just give me my cash and I'll eat the loss on the rest.
3) One year, maximum. I want something in the next year; if I can't have points by then, just give me my cash and I'll eat the loss on the rest.
4) Forever. I want my points and my cash, and I'll wait as long as it takes to get them.

I definitely have to say yes since I have around $10k in pts, more than my cash balance.

TheEngineer should give his red pro rakeback + hourly to a liquidator if he wants to be anything but worthless

You usually have really good posts, but this isn't one of them.

First off, a lot of our point balances are incorrect and no one wants to fix them.
This could take a while even if you moved.
Secondly, 'enough points to care' is relative. What is a lot of pts to you might not be to me and vice versa
Thirdly, putting in the work to relocate has costs which could offset your pt balance. Should a father of 3 relocate to cash in his 3 million ftps? Would the move be worth it if he had 10 million pts?
Fourth, certain promotional achievements ie iron level iron man, black card super duper guy, enabled you to turn your pts into cash anytime you pleased(concierge) so in some cases pts were cash. Should that just be discounted bc you have more cash than points?
Fifth, ROW gets reimbursed a value for pts so they get 100% refunded but USA should get shafted?

There's more but I just wanted to put it out there that you just shouldn't be so short sighted because the exact issue at hand doesn't meet your timeline or what's important to you.

Points would complicate things and probably add months/years to the remission process. Pay the balance. If you have a ton of points, move to canada/mexico for 2 weeks and cash them in. Or just wait until online poker is legal again. It's not like our points disappeared. They are in your account, and as of right now, if you want them, go get them.

Expecting players to move to cash out points is rediculious...There is no quarantee that in a "US" regulated market that Stars or FTP will be granted a lisence..Current Reid/Kyl has a 5 year wait until they could apply for much less be granted a lisense..

I fail to see how coming up with a poinnts valuation is all that complicated or time consuming...The internet "wiz kids" on this forum come up with a valuation in hours after sites announce "new" rewards or bonus programs...

of course we should get everything. Why the **** shouldnt I get 100% of the value of my account, especially since everyone in the rest of the world did.

Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, or just is happy taking pennies on the dollar because they want their money back already (which is a valid opinion).

Personally I dont give a **** how much longer it takes, I want 100% because I find it incredibly insulting and just plain ****ing wrong, to get anything less than that in light of the deal.

Considering that I literally just posted, and now you have and mine is gone I'll assume that you deleted my post. Can't think why, since it was one of oooo.... most of the posts to make sense here....

The "value of your account" is EXACTLY what is in question - or the DOJ will claim that it is. Since US law does not apply to ROW, it makes sense that points are unaffected to ROW players.

I'm not saying that what you are saying is wrong. I agree with you. You SHOULD get the full value of your account. You won't. That doesn't mean that the PPA shouldn't try. It's an obvious fact that in a negotiation, you take the first offer that you make to an extreme high, and barter down at an extremely low rate. It is worth it to try. I can't see why most people wouldn't be willing to wait and see what the DOJ's position is on the whole situation.


Will a mod please change the poll question so it actually means something

Skall made some good comments and gets to the heart of the matter. This poll does not. Everyone wants the same thing. As much and as soon as possible. The question that matters and as Skall gave his opinion, the time frame for delays should we be faced with FTP rewards + balances or just balances.

In both options, you were always to be awarded FTP rewards. 1 was with the DOJ and the other was with PS.

I voted getting cash only.

My interests are
1. receiving 100% of my cash balance
2. getting the check as quickly as possible

Getting cash value for points from the DOJ seems cumbersome and a long shot.

1. I'm assuming given that this question is even being asked in the first place that there is some sort of significant cost/sacrifice involved in order to get the points. (Reading more of this thread it seems maybe this assumption is wrong but in that case WTF @ making this thread) If we can have our cake and eat it too then obviously everyone would choose that.

2. by "relocate" i just mean go somewhere long enough to get your account unlocked, cash in your points, and get out. If you do you homework ahead of time this would take maybe a week?

Yes we should get money for our FTP points.

But LOL @ this poll.

Rich Muny was terrified that a poll regarding the ACTUAL question would not fall in his favor.

Instead, he asked a laughably biased and loaded question that was almost assured to support the PPA's actions.

Had he asked the REAL question of "Should the PPA have brought up the points matter at the DOJ meeting?", this poll would have been a lot closer.

The PPA's attempts at misleading and manipulating never cease.

Cannot +1 enough times for this post

Players should 100% be reimbursed for the point/medal balances in their accounts. Many players have thousands of dollars worth of points in their accounts.

this... +1

Why would getting value for points make the process longer?
If the scope of the job the DOJ is contracting for included working out the value of points wouldn't the contractor just hire more people and charge more?
It's almost like people think that 10 people are hired to work out cash balances and then those 10 people have to start working on points.
How would be impossible that one department works on cash balances and one works on points value. Adding the two balances, points and cash doesn't seem that difficult.
Now you can assume many things such as the extra expense is large enough to affect cash balances being paid 100% but no one knows anything at all about what the cost that working out value for points will be.
So yes the PPA should push for full value of your accounts.
If the DOJ said we are not sure on the legal reasons how we can give victims value for points and it will take years to determine if we even can I think the PPA would push for support of cash balances paid as soon as possible.

Sorry man, I dont have the power to delete posts in NVG, I had nothing to do with it if your post was deleted.

Its sad, pathetic, and criminal that we wont get the full value of our accounts. The DOJ brokered the damn deal, and then ****s over its own citizens in the process.

I know its -EV spite, but id honestly rather get nothing back than a big "**** you, heres .80 on the dollar, be grateful, god bless america"

If you're going to ask for FTP points to be included it should be clear that at least for many US players, maybe all, FTP never converted ironman medals to points, despite its claims in every email I've seen sent both to myself and other people posting on 2+2 that they were all converted a long time ago. So everyone's point balance is way less than its supposed to be