Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ - Page 19 - Poker News

Bitar, who pleaded not guilty in a courtroom that included several family members and friends among spectators, was ordered held until he can meet the conditions of a $2.5 million bond, an amount set by U.S. Magistrate Judge Debra Freeman over the objections of a prosecutor who asked that he be held without bail as a flight risk.

You do realize that a plea deal doesn't necessarily mean "no jail time", right?

07-02-2012 , 09:21 PM

#453

dan12

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBTHorton

Heh, so Ray didn't know about the superceding indictment.

I hope that didn't just **** us.

I think he was aware that facing new charges it was a possibility.

"Defense attorney Roberto Finzi pointed out to the judge that Devlin-Brown’s argument was flawed because, despite numerous requests by the defense to the USAO that they guarantee no additional charges against Bitar were in the works, the USAO refused to do so, for weeks, and Bitar agree to surrender anyway."

07-02-2012 , 09:21 PM

#454

markksman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lilwhaldo

Just skimmed the indictment, to those of you that said full tilt didn't make any money, lol. Pursuant to their money laundering charge they are now supposed to hand over 2.5 billion usd. Where did this money come from if they didn't make any? Unless of course I'm reading it wrong. I'm not a lawyer.

What do those two things have to do with each other?

07-02-2012 , 09:24 PM

#455

Joe Tall

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JimAfternoon

I wonder if he'll make bail.

From DiamondFlush who was the courtroom today:http://diamondflushpoker.com/2012/07...charges-filed/

Quote:

After taking a short break, the Judge returned to rule that Bitar will be entitled to bail. The bond value will increase though, from $ 250K to $ 2.4M, $ 1million of which must be secured in cash. She approved up to 5 cosigners. A surrender of his passport (this already happened) and travel limitations are also included bail structure. It is expected those cosignors would include those friends and family of Bitar who were in the courtroom including his mother, his brother and sister (both of which have a history of working at Full Tilt) and friends and spouses, the same friends and family that paced the corridors for hours waiting for the arraignment to happen. The defense asked that Bitar be allowed out on bail for one week while they tried to raise the additional amount necessary, the USAO argued against that. The judge ruled that Bitar will remain incarcerated until the new bail requirements are met.

07-02-2012 , 09:24 PM

#456

VP$IP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzuff

You do realize that a plea deal doesn't necessarily mean "no jail time", right?

Yes

http://diamondflushpoker.com/2012/07...charges-filed/

At some prior time it was arranged between the parties that Bitar would advise SDNY of his flight plans, that he would be met by federal agents when he landed in New York earlier today, and that he would surrender and be taken into custody, and be immediately transported to the courthouse for arraignment. That plan however, changed a bit when the agents actually boarded the plane in New York to arrest Bitar with a new superceding indictment and additional charges in hand.

He also pointed out that while the original and prior superceding indictments left all defendants with a sense of merely facing a year or two in jail if convicted, the new charges now facing Bitar could conceivably result in decades of incarceration. Therefore, Devlin-Brown argued, even though he came in voluntarily now, his feelings could change, causing him to flee.

Last edited by VP$IP; 07-02-2012 at 09:29 PM.

07-02-2012 , 09:29 PM

#457

JimAfternoon

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I wonder if he'll have a change of heart considering the new charges. Could he decide to post the new bail and take off?

07-02-2012 , 09:29 PM

#458

Mondogarage

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zomboid!

Now, of course there is no agreement officially in place (as noted by Forbes and the AP). The government does not do plea deals with fugitives on the lam. But there have certainly been intensive discussions between the DOJ and Bitar's lawyers (as there continues to be with Scheinberg et. al.). And there is certainly an implicit agreement between the parties as to punishment. Why else did he turn himself in? The authorities had no leverage, as the did in the Madoff case. Because he has a sick aunt in Iowa? Now, maybe the DOJ will double-cross his ass, and throw the book at him. But there's gotta be some sort of understanding.

I mostly agree with, except for one thing. Well, two things. One, he would not have known of the sealed indictment. He may have been warned by his lawyers that such a thing was possible (and he'd be a fool not to think it was possible, given the conduct alleged in it). But more importantly, there's enough shady people involved here that it wouldn't have taken a couple random poker donks to go after him physically in Ireland...there's enough shareholders of FTP who know enough...more shady people, all of whom have reason to want to see this end, to have induced him to come in.

I'm probably wrong on this point, I realize, but not to the extent that I think it's really possible Bitar got on that plane not knowing he was landing in the arms of a possible 145 year sentence and no agreement. Because if there really was a likely agreement in place re sentencing, the prosecutor would be pressing for something like an ankle bracelet, and not "hold due to flight risk".

07-02-2012 , 09:30 PM

#459

zoomie123

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 388

If I were the PS CEO and saw what the DOJ did to Bitar I would have second thoughts about dealing with them.

07-02-2012 , 09:30 PM

#460

markksman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lilwhaldo

Yes that's right the govt is going to ask for 2.5 billion and only expect to get 50 mil.... You people really still think full tilt didn't make money?

Yes. The original FTP fines were made before the doj knew the specifics of their financials. These fines have nothing to do with FTP being a profitable business. They were not.

07-02-2012 , 09:31 PM

#461

NeedsToBeSaid

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 997

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

Yes. The original FTP fines were made before the doj knew the specifics of their financials. These fines have nothing to do with FTP being a profitable business. They were not.

jfc will you stop lying?

07-02-2012 , 09:31 PM

#462

DoTheMath

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyg2001

Sounds like thats what happened.

"He also pointed out that while the original and prior superceding indictments left all defendants with a sense of merely facing a year or two in jail if convicted, the new charges now facing Bitar could conceivably result in decades of incarceration. Therefore, Devlin-Brown argued, even though he came in voluntarily now, his feelings could change, causing him to flee."

http://diamondflushpoker.com/2012/07...charges-filed/

Bitar and his lawyers knew that the DoJ might file more charges. (They asked the DoJ to confirm that this wouldn't happen and the DoJ declined to do so.) Bitar (and probably his lawyers) know what he has done. They know the DoJ has access to FTP's records and can guess there are people talking to investigators. While Bitar didn't know exactly what was coming, he had to have had a fairly good idea. Or he's stupid and doesn't have a very good grasp of reality and consequences - but there's no evidence of that.

07-02-2012 , 09:32 PM

#463

Mondogarage

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

Are you suggesting that Bitar got scammed by the DoJ?

Not scammed...outplayed. A felon on the run is always -EV against the DOJ, once you get past small sample size...

07-02-2012 , 09:32 PM

#464

novahunterpa

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Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,244

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBTHorton

I worded that poorly.

Obviously he wouldn't know about them, but I thought maybe his "deal" he's working on would include further issues.

Yeah, It appears from DF article that for a few weeks Bitar was trying to get the USAO to agree to no further charges in exchange for Bitar coming in. The USAO would give Bitar any such agreement. Looks like Bitar decided to gamble by turning himself hoping there wouldn't be any other charges.

I'm guessing that because Bitar is the CEO and considering that FTP under Bitar was a big scam The USAO wasn't going to offer any deals about future charges. esp as the Big dog at FTP there's really no one higher up the food chain that Bitar can offer up as part of a plea against future charges.

If I'm the CEO of UB and PS this doesn't bold well as they must be ****ting their pants expecting more charges against them at some point.

07-02-2012 , 09:34 PM

#465

Mondogarage

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

Thanks for explaining your reasoning.

I had thought that the fact that payouts came from player funds was already made sufficiently clear in the revised civil complaint, so I wasn't seeing the new indictment as changing the known facts on the ground except wrt the likelyhood of guilty knowledge on the part of non-director owners. Before, we only had a lack of evidence regarding guilty knoweledge. Now we actually have some evidence of owners having been misled. IMO we've moved from

A possibilty of owners having to pay due to guilty knowledge and a possibility of owners having to pay due to unjust enrchment,

Almost no chance of owners having to pay due to guilty knowledge, and no change in the chance they'll have to pay due to unjust enrichment.

I'll grant the mention of the use of player funds in the new indictment is even clearer than in the amended civil complaint, but I don't know if that clarity or any of the new factual allgations changes the principle of civil responsibility possibly faced by non-director owners. Perhaps the mention of the use of player funds in a criminal indictment rather than the amended civil complaint is more signficant (wrt owner liability) than I realize.

Or perhaps less significant than I think.

Or, maybe DOJ concludes that the % of the money that went to non-director types is small enough to not try to jump through all the hoops to try to claw back, either. And, I'm sure any settlement will be independent of this. Settlement involving PS isn't going to be conditioned on clawback, that's for certain.

07-02-2012 , 09:35 PM

#466

ZBTHorton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by novahunterpa

If I'm the CEO of UB and PS this doesn't bold well as they must be ****ting their pants expecting more charges against them at some point.

This was my concern. But I'm being told by people who know things that it's not as big of a concern as I believed.

07-02-2012 , 09:35 PM

#467

Dudd

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JimAfternoon

I wonder if he'll have a change of heart considering the new charges. Could he decide to post the new bail and take off?

Going to be tough to do without his passport

07-02-2012 , 09:35 PM

#468

philcski

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 319

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPoppa

Can someone please give the OP a ****ing undertitle already?

edit: My vote goes to "Confirmed Legit"

07-02-2012 , 09:35 PM

#469

moki

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,051

From the indictment:

Quote:

23. As a result of the above practice, the gap between the account balances Full Tilt Poker reported to players, on the one hand, and the amount of cash the company actually had available to pay players, on the other, widened still further.

In fact, on or about February 1, 2011, RAYMOND BITAR, the defendant, received a projection from his financial staff warning that Full Tilt Poker would run out of all cash within months.

Notwithstanding this report, BITAR continued to approve "profit" distributions of approximately $10 million per month to himself and Full Tilt Poker,s other owners, further decreasing the company's cash on hand and its ability to repay its customers.

My kingdom to be able to link to the SrslySirius "F*ck You" video...

07-02-2012 , 09:36 PM

#470

markksman

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilwhaldo

Ya well if they didn't make the law and instead regulated it this mess never would have happened.

So put it back in your pants please.

Full tilt owners wound have still stolen all the money and nobody would have any chance of getting it back.

07-02-2012 , 09:36 PM

#471

VinVegas

centurion

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonDawg

Does this mean I'll get my Black Card now? I earned that ****.

+10000000

07-02-2012 , 09:36 PM

#472

Blizzuff

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by novahunterpa

If I'm the CEO of UB and PS this doesn't bold well as they must be ****ting their pants expecting more charges against them at some point.

People keep saying this, except that the "additional" charges against Bitar are all due to his handling of the situation post-Black Friday, as far as I can tell. I'm sure PS or UB knew already that additional charges are possible if they committed additional crimes post black friday. Therefore, it shouldn't change much in the minds of PS or UB, I think.

07-02-2012 , 09:37 PM

#473

NeedsToBeSaid

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 997

Quote:

Originally Posted by novahunterpa

What has PS done that's not already alleged? I mean UB fine, but I've seen no evidence that PS is guilty of anything outside of crimes related to UIGEA and bank fraud. Have you?

07-02-2012 , 09:38 PM

#474

Dudd

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBTHorton

This was my concern. But I'm being told by people who know things that it's not as big of a concern as I believed.

Aren't these new charges all relating to the fraud Full Tilt committed by maintaining that player funds were safe and segregated while spending them like drunken sailors? Assuming Pokerstars is as squeaky clean on that front as it appears, I don't see why this should concern them, and UB obviously doesn't care since they seem to be in the wind anyways.