so when is hellmuths new book on shortstacking strategy coming out? cant wait to read that

Had, the mods didn't like it. How could you not like ass?

So u can read it over and over again.

Do you think that phil ever leaves all 11 bracelets on daneil's pillow like in the movie 'funny people'?

...

I just don't get PH fanboys. I mean they're probably all levels.

no theyre just people that watch poker on tv and dont play themselves. i used to think he was awesome too when i didnt know anything about poker

tell us something we don't know: Hellmuth sucks.

Yeah he bashes him all the time but as soon as Hellmuth says something he cries about it on PAD.

"oh my god will u shut up? your are so annoying, omg my god"

boohooo..

Hellmuth is the best fundamental player out of the players being talked about imo. I remember the commentary about Phil Ivey at the ME final table and the other players were saying that Ivey might be playing too tight. Hellmuth was disagreeing with him and you could tell that they were sort of dismissing that opinion as "weak".

The problem with many of these players is that they are playing NL correctly in a "high level fundamential" sense. I think though that PH's greatest strength is his patience and avoiding profitable but marginal edge spots. He's pretty good at avoiding conflict in situations where the edge isn't really clear.

On the other hand the internet players are experts at figuring out double downside situations with large blinds. PH might make mistakes in these situations because his biases are always leaning toward future hand equity. One of the reasons that his roi is so high is that he's able to avoid 6 percent edges in favor of 15+ percent edges due to exploiting his future hand equity better than other players are. He's able to do this because the structures are so favorable in the types of tournaments he is used to playing.

In double downside situations a fold does not increase your future hand equity and calling does not really increase your chances of winning the hand. Calling in these math spots DOES increase your future hand equity WHEN YOU WIN. So even though it appears to be a situationally marginal spot the benifit of calling over folding is contained in the future.

You have three extremes of tournament play I think. Stu Ungar played each tournament like a cash game basically. He was able to push hands to the limit like someone would do in limit poker and exploit the others players tendencys to wait for better spots. His "irrational" play was designed to exploit the general theory.

Now though as an extention of the huge amounts of turbo tournaments players players are playing more and more for current hand equity. This results in many all in pots where having the edge becomes the only thing that matters even if that edge is between 1-6 percent.

Due to these changes on how the mass mentality has become guys like Phil Helmuth will continue to prosper. Based on his style the only way you are going to get him is by exploiting the structures for small edges against him.

What you're starting to see now in the cash games is extreme fold equity exploitation. So what used to be a keep the pot smaller until you're sure game has become make the pot bigger game to increase the percieved value of your hand. This type of play has resulted in extreme stupidity. Like four betting light etc. I really think in these situations that both players taking the game to that level results in bad play.

I think that players need to keep the spewy part to continuation bets and stop the other marginal crap in tournaments. The later stages of the tournament should be played just like a turbo depending on the structure.

If a guy like hellmuth got really good at the turbo type math though he would be even more dangerous.

The best players like Ivey though are able to find the reads and chop off the spewy situations.

this

Just ignore him and maybe he'll go away.

i have to admit, andreyit kinda owned the PH haters...

and he did a good job coaching shulman in the ME too..I mean say what u want about his secret 5x big blind raises but Shulman had a legit shot if it werent for luckbox CADA

This!

DN bashing Hellmuth's outdated game = self loathing.

All these posts about Hellmuth are reall pointless i think. When he is playing poker on tv he isnt really thinking about the game. All he wants is tv time so in like tourneys he folds forever to get more time, in cash games he likes to look like geniues with good folds or great traps and he risks alot to look like genius. So i dont take anything he does on pad serious its all act imo.

On the rare occasions I wind up in NVG, I'm always shocked that andreyit is not banned.

Seriously... how stupid does a poster need to be... even in NVG... to get banned?

Has dn won anything on pad?

I don't think so .... Things aren't looking
good for him in this thread,,

( thinking back to ph anting himself off)

they are even again. Lol

i'm sorry. You're right, i did get owned there. gg

While it is true Phil Hellmuth has won 4 bracelets since January 1st 2003, however when the poker boom initially started after Moneymaker's win, Hellmuth has won 2. That is how you count. Before Moneymaker's win and after.

So in 5 years ('04 to '09) he has 2 bracelets. Still fine though considering there is not many people that have 2 bracelets over the 5 year span. I'd say like 15 people have 2 bracelets over that 5 year span.

Here's a list (Multiple bracelet winners from 04 to 09

Phil Hellmuth
Scott Fischman
Phil Ivey (3!)
Erik Seidel
Jeff Madsen
Mark Seif
T. J. Cloutier
Ted Forrest
Farzad Bonyadi
Allen Cunningham (3!)
Daniel Negreanu
Barry Greenstein (3! and in all different games)
Tom Schneider
Jeff lisandro (4! ONLY one with 4)

Actually this might be all of them, so 14 so far have won 2 or more bracelets since Moneymaker's win.

Now look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_Tour_winners

Look who's notable name is missing. Hellmuth.


These 5 also have a wpt open win to go along with 2(+) bracelets they also have wpt wins
Barry Greenstein
Daniel Negreanu
Ted Forrest
Erik Seidel
Phil Ivey

lisandro ?

On the other hand, Hellmuth has the same number of final tables as Seidel, and the same number of cashes as Ivey, Forrest in much much less tournaments played at the WPT. He's gonna win one eventually, it's only a matter of time.

Daniel Negreanu is also the only one listed above with multiple wpt open wins and has 7 final tables (when reduced to 6). In those 7, he has finished no worse than 3rd.

Cashes are meaningless. Also Ivey plays less tournaments than Hellmuth does.

you're a ******. please see my post.

Also I have never seen Negraneau attack random people personally on the way they play. Hellmuth does this all the time.

Hellmuth is nothing more than an insecure child and needs to be punched in the face and to be told to SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE **** UP.

Ivey has played 77 WPT tournaments so far, finally won one after like trying like 70 times. PH has played only 61 tournaments. Barry Greenstein played 95 and Erik Seidel 93.