To put in a very simplistic way, because poker people aren't making decisions, and the decisions being made aren't with an insight or aim to the health of the game.

I find it hard to believe we will see positive innovation from them going forward.

Apart from when they are in a hand, which is the whole point.

Why does JokerStars still allow HUD's? AKA Cheating software that turns players into robots...

I stopped playing online after Black Friday. So happy I did.

This. Those succeeding with the software are intelligent, dedicated individuals. But they're not playing poker.

So it's like pro poker lab ware you enter all of the players hands .make a range of the players at the hs hu
There is not a lot of players so opening 4 tables and enter all hands from there games in to the lab for a range ?

wow. great comparison!

I wonder if the reason Jmo said that centaurs were more relevant in PLO was because PLO preflop ranges are more easily abstracted / less discrete than NLHE. That is, since these programs work by imputing preflop ranges, a real time NL flop solver might be more easily tricked by preflop noise.

+1

And no need to wonder why there are fewer recreational players at the cash game tables.

So are Pokerstars doing something to prevent this?

Patrick has used software for many years.

I mean it's pretty silly to say they're not playing poker. There are tools out there in which dedicated poker players can use to perfect their play/ideas on how to play. Technology and computing power has allowed that to happen and there's no real way of going back. I don't think it even really matters too much whether you're using it in game or only for practice/research purposes, you can still devise an unbeatable strategy with it, and there's nothing to be done about it really.

You can ban all programs but 1) that could make the fish uncomfortable 2) "Cheaters" will still find a way around this ban(voice control, 2nd computer, etc.) 3) Players studying GTO strategy on certain textures/devising strategies will still crush those not staying ahead with this research/technology.


What it really comes down to is the fish/new players/money coming into the site. That will be the only way online poker doesn't die, as the technology and tools will only get better. The idea that these guys aren't really playing poker and wouldn't be able to win live is just absurd. These are great players who do in fact destroy live poker as well. Live is just so much softer and winnable for your typical poker pro because of other reasons that have nothing to do with the great players being unable to use software.

Software is overrated. As long as you spend at least 10 hours a day in the lab, you're going to be one of the best, with or without hud.

Interesting contrast of responses so far in this thread, like most things Imo the truth is somewhere in the middle. Sorry recreational guys in here, you would still get slaughtered just as badly by the pros without a hud if the pros aren't playing more then a few tables. What it does do, and I think this is and always has been the biggest problem with a HUD and other helping multitabling software, is allow pros to play a ton of tables and gather information they debatably don't deserve on a lot of tables they are barely paying attention to, and TBH I think we can blame pokerstars for that. The SNE culture they have created basically passively endorses the use of as much software you can get your hands on.

They're not playing the live casino version of poker your used to, they are playing online poker, I think we can all agree it's not the same thing and never really has been.

Also I think it's worth pointing out, a lot of the more advanced HUDs, and this possible in real time GTO software etc, is being used by pros to beat other pros. This really has no impact on the recreational player, they are getting crushed regardless.

ban them all fu poker stars for leting this bots play

That is what many fish want. I wouldn't give it to em...let em go play live that will show em.

At the end of the month, Pokerstars is introducing a rule that says bot users can only use preflop charts if they all fit on an one a4 page and they aren't too complex

Yup. Great point that's getting overlooked.

FWIW I don't use HUDS.

'It's not poker' - well, if it's not poker when people use a HUD, I don't know what it is but it's a better game than poker.

haha this thread is interesting. Im just a micro player but I can say now that nl2 plays like nl25 played 5 years ago. Id imagine there's an even bigger difference the higher you go. Poker is indeed completely and utterly dead.

Why is the fact that Ike is apparently cheating on PS simply being glossed over?

The dream machine is just a rumour and anyway, stuff like that appears to be allowed by PokerStars at the moment. Ike's always been a great ambassador for poker so I would hold back on the "cheating" talk if I was you.