It’s not all derailing the thread, that’s an important point to understand. It’s placing the focus where it ought to be.

The people debating exceptions to the FCFS policy and if legit are derailing the thread. OP tried to jump a guy in original lineup and appropriately got denied.

Doesn’t surprise me that he thinks he might get follow ups because he’s confused and not accurately portraying facts and omitting key others.

it is for the good guys. im trying to help him not lose the debate lol

I've exhaustedly and repeatedly describe exactly what happened. So this weird "gotcha" that I just didn't understand my place on the list is a pathetic and transparent attempt to derail the convo, likely by insiders in on this racket or similar ones.

I took a seat at a public poker game, I was dealt in a seat, floor pulled me off, I specifically asked if my place on the list was based on call in time or arrival time, and instead they told me the requirement for a seat was to gamble more recklessly or a bribe. That's your tl;dr.

It doesn't matter if I was 10th on the list if the person who put me in 10th did it because he's running a racket where he has pros in the game as his horses and he serves them up the softest players from the public list. I could give them a month's notice on an empty list and I'm sure I'd still mysteriously end up outside the starting 9. My whole point is that the list needs to be made in a transparent manner.

I've played in California for a long time, I've been waitlisted hundreds of times. I don't get a seat, I saw "oh shucks" and go home and try again next time. That was my intention this time but the way it was handled was completely shady and unprofessional which Bay 101 head of compliance conceded. I've played thousands of times all over the country , Atlantic City, Vegas, Turning Stone, and especially California and I have never reported a single thing to gaming commission. I reported this precisely because I do know how cardrooms work and I know this isn't right, it's an illegal racket.

This was on top of several other shady things I've seen in this cardroom, including multiple pros who regularly play there suggesting foul play in these games. The only reason they don't make a bigger deal out of it is because the floor basically tries to feed them enough scraps by letting them occasionally play in the good games and they don't want to be "unwelcome" themselves at their bread & butter card room. I am not a pro so I don't care, what I care about is that I can play at my local 5/10 public game without some corrupt floorman trying to hijack it like it's Tony Soprano's underground game.

You gave yourself a seat which was not your right to do. It was already locked up. Then instead of grabbing a bite to eat or playing something else while waiting next up you threw a hissy fit.

Those are my cliff notes

It’s lazy compared to studying and getting better at poker, yes.

I’ve done it and it wasn’t for me.

Actually these players would play anyway and the game would form organically, just not at the same time and date. And everyone would have an equal chance to play.

Before these games came along they still ran all the time but it was sporadic and you had to be in the casino putting in hours to know when. Hence hustle was rewarded.

This is a gold post and rich it just takes time to understand how card rooms in CA work

For one Ca and New York despite being the largest states are absolutely corrupt to the core. Look at say the Los Angeles administration scandals and open laundering scandals at HG or scandals at the Oaks as just a few examples there is no accountability.

So you’re barking up a tree where the gaming commission might give a **** in say Indiana, but because of staffing and training issues at the end of the day the Bay 101 and Matrix are only going to have small numbers of tables and these curations will occur at the whims of power and your best bet is to just figure out when you can get a seat in the good games and try to be respectful to all given realities

Good grief, this is like a stowaway on a cruise ship complaining when caught “but I was already in the cabin taking a nap for Pete’s sake!”

The seat you jumped into, without direction from floor, wasn’t yours to take. The rest is histrionics, hearsay, and butthurt syndrome.

Ok, I'm actually taking a break from this thread.

As we can see, the majority of poker players agree with me (+12 likes on the OP, DMs about collaborating on civil cases, etc). But there's a handful of a few screennames that keep popping in this thread (ScotchOnDaRocks, TheFly) that have become obsessed with jumping in here to name call me, distort what I said, attempt various "gotchas" on nitpicky details. It's transparent that these guys are either in on this racket or similar one which explains their compulsive contribution to this thread.

I want to emphasize what's important, which is that the California Justice Department is investigating and will benefit from more players calling the number in my OP and sharing their experience, and that Bay 101 head of compliance (Rich) told me that his floor person acted unprofessionally and he plans to investigate.

I've played thousands of hours in California card rooms, never had a single issue, never filed a single complaint, I filed this complaint cause I know a racket when I see one, what's going on with "set lineups" in public games is an illegal and will end if enough players speak up.

If Bay 101 management wants to simplify their lives, avoid risking their gaming license, avoid bad PR, avoid civil cases, then the smart thing to do is to get crooked floor and crooked props off of your payroll.

Alright, if ScotchOnTheRocks and TheFly feel the need for another couple dozen personal insults in a desperate and pathetic attempt to protect their racket, have fun, I'm out.

FWIW I may have even hit the like button on your original post, but then I re read your post and seemed like you tried to jump the starting lineup list, which was later confirmed.

I’ve actually been quite constrained in this thread, just simply pointing out how I think you are misguided

I live in Las Vegas and have never played a hand of poker in CA so your read is off. I have however played in games with starting lineups so I know how they work and aren’t formed to be a hustle. It’s just a great luxury for room and players to know exactly when a game is starting to be efficient on all sides.

At this point you keep on talking about how the DOJ is going to come after the room but I think the most likely occurrence out of all this is that you get banned from the poker room. Think it would be best if that happened.

Please do share the CA Statute or Gaming Code Regulation you’re hanging your hat on by making this statement.

You were outside the starting lineup because it’s already set the night before. If you had a little bit of social skill you would have waited first up and then asked the prop who runs the game how to get on the starting lineup.

Accusing props of doing profit sharing with floors and getting pieces of pros to allow then to play in the game with zero evidence is not helping your case. The only thing I see evidence of right now is that you were denied the seat because you were not in the starting lineup. Calling in first is a red herring.

The floor didn’t communicate all this properly to you. Sorry about that.

I'd like to rescind any support I originally gave to the OP. earlier. While the poker room might not be totally innocent. The OP certainly seems to be the main problem. Gonna leave the convo, I'll check back to see what happens with the "investigation" but won't hold my breath. It was probably a case of gaming just saying anything to get OP off the damn phone after 20 minutes.

Regardless of whether OP is a credible source, the issue he’s raising is certainly a important one. Do we want a poker monopoly or a meritocracy?

I once asked an organizer politely if I could get on his list and he bluntly said “you don’t have a chance.” So social skills alone don’t really cut it. It’s all about inviting the whales and shutting the competition out.

Not to mention he’s publicly calling for floormen to be fired from their jobs because, evidently, their material wasn’t quite polished enough for The Comedy Store yet.

Somehow I am imagining OP taking his complaint to Sam Rothstein, then Sam and Nicky trying to decide which hole to drop him in.

First what makes this or any other private vs public? Is there a list of agreed conditions to determine one from another?

Second, how would you like it if you could not even det to that craps table because you did not meet some criteria? Imagine being stopped at the room entrance and being told you were not allowed to enter because you did not lose enough to the casino.

So when I show up and get bumped to the top of the list, THAT instantly makes it a private game?

And OP initially claimed they texted a “prop player”. Either he is ignorant of what a prop player is vs a game runner or organizer or that the game is still being organized by the casino.

OP…that you have played poker for 20 years means little. That you don’t know correct and proper related terminology or at least do not understand it says much more. Your ongoing diatribes do not strengthen your position. Your self described acts alone could be enough to ban you from that game for sometime. Repeated, these acts could ban you forever.

Your name or position on a list does not guarantee you a seat and certainly not one at your time of choosing. No matter how the seatings were arrived at nor how they progress, it is the house running the game and controlling it.

If the game runner asks the house casino to exclude you and they can and do, then it is still the casino choice to do so. Since it is apparent that FCFS is not binding on casino poker list, that you get bumped, skipped, hopped, whatever does not violate common practice unless you want to make a protected class claim.

These two statement are inherently contradictory. First of all, why should a patron not violating any house rules not be allowed to play when it is their turn, simply by the say so of another player of equal standing? Second, it is not, as you say, the house running the game and controlling it once the "game runner" (player) tells the house to exclude someone and the house does. It is the players running the game at that point.

Unless the players are paying an hourly fee to rent the table to keep it exclusive, there is absolutely no reason why they should be afforded this discretion. By OP's post it does not sound like this was a truly private game paying such a rental fee. Perhaps a kickback to a floor person, but not a fee to the house.

That he directly and intentionally violated standard practice of following the list and then whines the house is not following the same practice he violated is not a pointless.

“I want to emphasize what's important, which is that the California Justice Department is investigating and will benefit from more players calling the number in my OP and sharing their experience, and that Bay 101 head of compliance (Rich) told me that his floor person acted unprofessionally and he plans to investigate.”

You actually don’t have any real evidence to support any action is happening by the state. I am nowhere close to CA and have only been in the state a handful of times, but I suspect the state employee flunky who answers the phone is authorized to institute an investigation.

The way you described that conversation in the OP, that employee did not sound knowledgeable on poker or the regs. To a complete non poker player, unaware that seating is often not FCFS might say exactly what you claim.

I suspect one of two things really happened. Maybe the person on the phone knew exactly what was going on and what was normal, but felt the best way to move forward was just give OP the placating words. As soon as he hung up, he had a chuckle, filed the complaint and ‘shoved it in a drawer’.

Alternatively, the person really did not know about poker and the regs and really thought the OP was harmed. Then as soon as he did look into it he realized there was nothing against the regs happening.

1. OP indicated the game runner was not even present so definitely was not another player.

2. If A asks the casino to start a game with these players AND this priority on alternates, and doing this does not violate regs and casino says sure, we can do that, it is still the casino running the game. It is the casino whose license is at risk if r3gs are being violated.

3. It is very possible that OP was not really next up in reality. If the house agreed these other players go to the top of the list when they show, OP could be bumped do at any time. Casinos do this all the time based on rating status. In this exact case, OP did not even wait for someone to be called. He did not like that he was not part of the first nine so he just seated himself. Had I been the floor I would have sent him home for the night. Do it next time and it’s a week, next perma. If I was the organizer setting this up with the casino, I 2ould let them know OP is no longer welcome at all. And if the regs allow, he should never get on that list again.

4. Casino agreeing to set up a game as some one wants, with in the regs, does not cede the game to that organizer. If the organizer came back and wanted to ch@nge the set up such that regs were violated, the casino sho7ld not agree to those changes. It is still the casino running the game.

Absolutely no contradiction in what was written. My choosing to agree to something is still my choice to agree.

This is only the casino's mistake. It was handled poorly, and their gamerunning and floor managing seems poorly thought out. Still seems like an in-house issue. Figure out a better and more reasonable way to seat the game, and remind the floorman that the players are to be treated with respect, especially when you're bumping them for your preferred plan of action.

No, the OP seemed clueless and just jumped into a locked up seat without permission. That’s what started it all. From there, yeah the floor should have explained the situation better. Or maybe they did actually explain it well but went over his head and he only heard what he wanted to.

But only .0043% of population would take “gamble like a trust baby” as something worth notifying the authorities lmao

You must have an invite to one of these semi-private casino games.