The only fair way is first come first serve. How can you argue against this simple way?

Also nobody said early birds offer anything. I didn’t know that was a requirement to play at a public casino

What makes this the fairest way? It's the easiest way in most cases so it's the most logical thing for the casino to do but it doesn't make it the most fair. You hit the nail on the head with "simple way".

Even the way lists are done in casinos varies. I've seen rooms with no call ins, calling in where you get 30 mins, 60 mins and 2 hours.You can argue how fair each once is if you want or if they're even fair at all. For example in rooms that don't take call ins (borgata lol, wynn during wsop to name a couple) it's common for some people to call/text floormen they know and get put on lists when other people can't do this. or if they have friends in the room they can get their friends to put them on the lists when other players can't. Not exactly fair.

There's nothing fair about mis regs who ruin games and chase off fun players with their antics getting seats bc they were there first. And there's nothing fair about them gain ev bc they'll resort to shady parasitic behavior other regs/pros won't resort to.

But lots of things in the poker room aren't fair. They're done for simplicity. For example pot rake is utterly ridiculous from a fairness standpoint. People games are built around pay the casino more money for the right to play than people who nit it up all day. It's totally backwards. Whales having some say in who they play with at higher stakes games considering how valuable they are actually seems pretty fair to me.

If it isn't that hard and lazy people do it, why don't you try and do it?

He said a stronger commission, not stronger regulations. There is a long history in Nevada of regulators putting their foot down. To be fair they are not perfect, but they are willing to stand up to gaming interests where appropriate, even if it is working with the casinos to come up with a better solution.

Actually that is not true.

It is probable the game would never run without thr 9 players showing up as a group (otherwise the casino would just run the game anyway).

So if those 9 players are not allowed to play the game together like they want, then you will get the same action you are currently getting, none.

Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, I think the whole industry is rethinking the while public/private game schism, hopefully in a way that would be beneficial for all (or at least most).

Right now, the choice is either:
1. Private game: meaning zero protections for players leading to overraked games, corrupt games, and no physical security for the players.
2. Public games open to anyone and everyone (starting lineup dependant).

I think eventually there will be a hybrid type of game. A private game held in a casino where a single person (host) can control who plays in the game. These might even be listed on boards (and in apps like Bravo/Poker Atlas), but will somehow be marked as private (i.e. subject to "curating" so to speak).

OMG best thing said in this thread so far.

I think you are both talking past each other.

I have discussed this with some shift managers/poker room managers in Vegas and my understanding is that the default is first come first served (FCFS) when it comes to waiting lists, but a casino can modify that anyway they want as long as they spell out the rules clearly to the commission and then follow the rules they laid out.

So Caesar's can file rules with the NGCB stating that their lists will be on a FCFS with the exception of Diamond/Seven Stars players (and those proceduresare approved). Then they are fine as long as they follow that rule.

I remember back in their heyday, Planet Hollywood had a rule that if a Seven Stars player wanted to join a game they would make it 10 handed for them. Thet was probably submitted to the NGCB.

FCFS was preserved in this example because the floor pulled OP out of his chair by the ear after he sat without permission. OP tried to jump ahead of someone above him on the list.

Why do you keep assuming op tried to jump ahead in line? Has that been spelled out somewhere?

More or less yes

OP admitted he just jumped in the game right as it was starting without going to board/floor due to no shows. But the starting lineup has their seats locked up for some reasonable amount of time, 30 minutes or so?

OP only states he got bumped for someone on the way.

He’s been asked to clarify a) confirm who exactly took his seat, someone above or below? b) how long did it take?

He always ignores these obvious key questions. Which leads me to the reasonable inference that it was someone on the starting list (who signed up the night before) and who got there relatively soon.

you dont know that he said he was done talking about it in the thread before anyone brought up that point. and even if he was wrong about that he had a few other good points. private games in a public casino are just so weird to me. imagine going to a crabs table and being told you cant play

What are you talking about? Those key questions were asked several times and he kept going with long paragraphs about playing poker for 20 years

He’s obviously oblivious to a game with a starting lineup and how it works. Floor did themselves no favors by not clearly indicating that the player already signed up and had a locked up seat. Instead he wanted to use a fancy word curated that he might have recently learned.

There was no deviation from FCFS but people love debating it, so carry on

It’s not a private game. It’s a public game with a starting list set night before. The people who signed up night before have a courtesy amount of time to be late before having their seat taken away.

OP tried to jump the seat and appropriately got denied.

Where are these crabs tables you speak of?

You said it yourself that they text the game runner and not the casino and he decides who gets in the game by sending the casino the list . if its not first come first serve and exceptions are made for vips its a private game regardless if op is an idiot and doesn't know the proper way to get into a table

Again, no it’s not a private game. It’s a public game but some guy organizes a starting list the night before, people lock up their seats, and gets a table set up for next day.

OP was next up after being appropriately denied trying to jump someone ahead of him. So it was FCFS.

But OP was confused, probably wasn’t communicated to well, and blew his top.

Enough with the ridiculous misdirections and strawmen Scotch.

The whole point of me following up about the curation process was to determine if the issue wasmy call in time. I was explicilty told that I did in fact call in earlier and arrive earlier than the other player, but that's not the criteria used for picking the lineup. I asked what the criteria was and I was told to "suck to <the prop>" and "gamble like i"m a trust fund baby".

What exactly does it mean to suck up to a casino employee to get into a public poker game? Buy him flowers for mother's day? Anyone who's not born yesterday knows they're asking for a bribe.

And of course the "gamble like a trust fund baby" pushes the boundaries of responsible gaming regulation.

I mention that I've been playing poker for 20 years because part of the way this confidence game works is that you insist "this just the way it is" and people who don't know better just accept it. This is not how a public game in California has worked for decades, it's a "new trend" that's illegal and needs to be nipped in the bud.

It's also relevant that I've been in poker for 20 years because, to play poker you gotta learn the cards but you also learn the game is filled with cheaters, scammers, and hustlers looking to con you. Its an unfortunate fact you have to be wary of scams and hustles and I've developed an intuition for spotting them. I see a racket at my local casino, I'm going to call it out for exactly what it is.

The con here is to pretend like it's normal, legal, or acceptable for a prop player to pick his lineup in a public game. That's not how it works. Props are paid to start the games, that's it. To let them pick the lineup introduces all sorts of conflicts of intersts as we're seeing here.

Again, this is NOT getting rid of pros to make the whales happy. Approved pros stay in the game, the whales don't even know they're in a private game. Just marking it clearly as a private game would be a huge improvement, but I was someone who wandered in to Bay 101, ask to play 5/5/10 NL, and think I'm in a public game. It's only after I win that I learn that I'm told that the lineup is picked, this is just how it works in a private game, I need to work on my soft skills etc.

If whales prefer a private game then start a private game but that's a total misdirection from what's happening here.

And yes the real criteria is not likeability but winnability, absolute best case the consistent grinders just complain about the lineup to the prop, much more likely there's some split of the action. I can't see any other reason why they're so picky about pros being in the games yet a chosen few get to play in the game every time.

The gossip at Bay 101 amongst other players who've been locked out of the game is that the pros who are approved are splitting their action with the prop & floor. Prop & floor get pros as horses in the game, manipulate the lineup to feed them softballs, and get their cut of the wins. It's collusion and a racket, which will be an inevitable result of allowing "starting lineups" in a public game that's not based on a fair and transparent system. I don't have hard evidence this is exactly what's going on but if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might be an illegal racket and pretending that public games have "starting lineups", which has never been a thing in poker until very recently, is asking for these types of problems.

The whole "oh this is just because poker players focus on winning and not enough on making the games fun" is a total misdirection from what's actually happening that the floor and prop are colluding to manipulate games in the favor of players they have a piece of.

I've already been DMed by others having this experience in California and Nevada and I expect a string of civil cases to emerge if casino owners don't have the brains to put a stop to this and clearly delineate public/private games and make sure public games have transparent systems to shape lineups that enable even access for all players.

Realistically this might start a couple games a week at Bay 101 but is now enabling an illegal collusion racket. That's a huge liability, it's going to endanger their ability to operate a public casino at all, be ammunition for the tribes to point out these cardrooms are not running legit operations and have no business in sports betting, etc. If casino owners can put 2 and 2 together, that floor and prop will be off payroll by tomorrow because the legal liability of this operation is hundred times higher than what they stand to gain from it.

I don't know what the Justice Department will do but based on my phone conversation with them, I do think the suggestion this will all be laughably dismissed are dead wrong. I again encourage all players who want fair and transparent systems for joining public games at public cardrooms to give them a call to share your experience and put an end to this shady practice of "starting lineups".

Tl;dr

But thanks for confirming that you did indeed try and jump a player in the original lineup. I saw that key part at least.

you should probably address the part where they think you just tried to skip the line and didn't ask anyone to be seated. because I dont think they are gonna get past that even if you made a mistake.

because your ignoring one stupid part of this you probably lose credibility to some. its laright if you messed up just say it

Try reading the first paragraph of OP.

Not a matter of credibility with me, I just think he’s a little oblivious to what happened and floor did a bad job explaining it

Why can’t you answer a simple question after 20 years in poker?

IM NOT THE ONE WHO CARES ITS DERAILING THE THREAD. im saying he needs to adress and acknowledge it since everyone is stuck on that pointless point if he wants us to take the rest of it seriously

Yes lol, I’m sure the “Justice Department” will soon be conducting an Elliott Ness style raid on Bay 101 with guns blazing all because a crybaby snowflake didn’t get a seat in a game where he was 10th on the waitlist.