Statement from the PPA:

This is excellent! Very good to hear (read) and I commend the PPA for making this statement. In the last few days I have been critical of the PPA - in part due to to it not (until now) acknowledging the scandal - but I can do nothing but applaud this statement issued by Senator D'Amato.

If that is what they say, what do they do?

Isnt Annie Duke their lead speaker? Have they removed UB/AP sponsored pros from their roster and have they stopped taking money from the sites? Have the told the son of the Cardplayer owner that it might be a good idea for the leading magazine of the industry to put even a vague amount of pressure on them and do a solid write up and perhaps they themselves should stop taking UB/AP funds?

My guess to all those questions, nope. The press release isnt even all that hard on the sites.

In fact, there is only one paragraph that specificially deals with the site:

It is phrased as "cheating has occured at this site", not "for 20 months there has been systemic failure to catch someone stealing millions of dollars and successfully moving them off the site. They would not have been able to do this were it not for friends/associates in the current company that let them get away with it all the way up to January of this year, where they were only caught by a bunch of players with no access to the security systems of the site and had nothing but a few hand histories and other public info to go on."

Also note there is no condemnation of either UB or the KGC. "We urge [them] ... to provide a full and transparent accounting of these breaches of the public trust to help lift the black cloud that has been placed over the industry."

Comon, the phrasing alone tells you all you need to know.

next: phils opinion

You have to read the first paragraph to have the correct context:

Please relax, the statement (in its entirety) is a good thing and a positive step.

Kev, do you expect coverage/commentary from the mainstream media on this press release?

I get it, they dont want to touch on the subject. So why not, like, not put out a statement at all? I mean they have left out so much detail about what has happened they might as well have just ignored the entire thing.

Its a good thing and a positive step, i cant really argue, but its a really really tiny step.

If they took a stronger step, even if they didnt want to, im sure everyone would respect them a lot more. At no point did they even condemn what happened. Maybe more is going on behind the scenes, but i expect there is less happening.

Anyway, if this is the total sum of their response to the cheating that its a bit meh imo.

It seems that the are calling out UB(yes, you Annie Duke) and AP...to prove to the world that they have investigated the cheating and to prove to OUR satisfaction that this will not happen again...something UB and AP have failed to do...How would anyone play on either of those site....60 Minutes should be their final nail in the UB/AP coffin......RIP

That's about as good as we could have expected from the PPA.

It would be great if somebody formed a competing organization with a mission to protect the right to play AND the right to play free from getting cheated.

it's not 100% of what they need to be doing but a good start

(x) Statement was written by Lederer/Duke team

Exactly this is what we players need now, a company that holds the trust of players but with acces to auditings at the different poker sites, but that is probably not going to happen

What you guys miss is that it would be counter productive to have an organization that both advances the political fight and polices the online poker world at the same time - believe me the 2 activities do not mesh well because there will always be accusations of conflicts of interest.

Let the PPA take on the political fight.

And why not simply form the equivalent of an "Online Poker Better Business Bureau" out of the expertise and enthusiasm of the posters here on 2+2 who have been so successful in bringing these scandals to light?

Skallagrim

Why? They didn't actually say anything and they aren't able to do anything, I guess it's nice of them to let people know that?

Wow, I read this statement a bunch of times, just realized that it doesn't even identify the type of cheating or the fact that it was done by insiders at the sites.

This is kind of silly. Obviously you're advocating for the right to play in a fair game, not just some abstract right to play. Online sites stealing money from their players via unfair games impacts that right, probably more than anything else. If all the sites were rigged, what good would the right to play on them be?

their official statement is so generic and really doesnt say much....

actions speak louder than words and the fact that Annie Duke is still associated with them shows how much the PPA cares

doesn't the PPA get nearly all of it's money from a few major poker sites? Or from major poker publications?

So the Poker Player's Alliance is an organization that doesn't care about Poker Players, just their right to play and continue to support the organizations making money off of them?


Is the plan to make sure that the people who are in control of the poker world now, just keep their control when the political climate for poker improves?


To be fair, i guess it was kinda naive to think that the PPA might actually be an organization that was trying to help people.

Even though this is NVG, you folks wanting the PPA to come out and "do more" about the UB cheating scandal are really not thinking straight.

Do you expect NARAL to list abortion doctors who have been sued?

Do you expect the NRA to have a list of "bad" guns/gun manufacturers?

And we have all seen that ACLU report on truly obscene porn sites.

Instead of complaining that the PPA is not (also) the investigating and regulatory agency for offshore online poker sites, why not do exactlly what has been suggested: START SUCH AN ORGANIZATION?

Get enough players to sign up, insist you will not "recommend" any site that does not submit to your inspection, and go forward.

And, of course, that's where this thread will fail. No one will even remotely suggest a way to carry the resolution of this scandal forward, it is far easier and more fun to criticize others for not doing something, or not doing enough.

Skallagrim

Agree with Todd Terry that it took me several readings to catch that people won't even read it as inside cheating unless they already know. Wow.

I kept thinking "this is even more generic than generic" but couldn't figure out why.

How about if someone with political connections, say a former Senator, gets a federal law enforcement agency to investigate?

I understand the desire to stay focused on their goal. But continuing to work with Annie, Phil, etc. is just shameful.

Legalizing poker in the US is not a good thing if it's accomplished by dishonorable people who will fail at creating appropriate regulation. Poker players being legally cheated is not a good outcome.

I also hate guilt by association. No one has any evidence Annie or Phil had anything to do with the cheating. You folks hate them because they wont come out and dis-associate themselves with folks connnected (in a manner still not completely known - I follow the thread) in some way with clear cheaters.

Since there isnt any proof they (Annie or Phil) cheated, or clear proof (yet) that current ownership/management was directly involved with the cheating, I may disagree with them continuing to represent UB, and if it were me I may do somethig different (easy for me to say), but I dont see it as grounds to kick them out of an organization they (well Annie at least) have significantly helped and which is concerned with politics, not site security.

I also dont like witch hunts and have no desire for the PPA to have a "secret police" ferreting out the "unworthy" among us.

You guys have a right to be royally pissed off at UB and AP and everyone who failed the poker playing community. But please stop and think before giving in to the "tar and feather" urge.

Skallagrim

If Annie and Phil continue working with UB, they should each be proactively acting as a liason regarding the superusers. Without doing that, they are part of the current problem, and, more importatly will be viewed as associating with cheaters (whether true or not). This makes them unfit to represent poker players as a group and destroys their credibility. Imagine if she's before congress and Representitive Jesus asks her about the cheating her site was involved in. Game over. Regardless of whether they were involved, the site and new management has handled the situation terribly. Phil and Annie continue to support the site. There should be consequences.

That being said, obviously this should not be part of the PPA's statement, as it would work completely against their goals. They should just quietly distance themselves from UB and it's sponsored players.