Stars should control the seating in their room. If they want to allow scripts then offer a proprietary version where they can facilitate an equatable system to everyone interested in a seat at each game. It is ludicrous to allow external software to provide an advantage with regards to the basic functionality of their poker room.

Why is it ludicrous? Any software that someone might use is merely an extension of their ability to problem solve and find ways to beat the game. To say that poker should be played on a computer which is capable of so many different things and yet also say that said computer should ONLY be used to exchange money and communicate bets, showdowns, etc. is what is truly ludicrous.

..their version of zoom that has a serious flaw as well. your thought sounds reasonable to some degree but it is hard to give them credit for this. the chain of things done wrong / not done is to long. more likely interpretation is that they are not capable or willing to think things through.

zoom minus fold out of turn ..would that be running?

your post is full of irony since you're clearly on the side of making poker easier because you're probably a seat scriping bumhunter....so if they were taken away, you'd have to be the one to actually adjust to something that would be much more fair.

I have no problem with HUDs or anything that a player may use to improve his problem solving skills.

However scripts allow someone with the best external script program, fastest internet connection/ computer an edge. I find that ludicrous. Remember I said I would agree if stars provided the script and all players operate on an equitable playing field.

Btw...your counter argument sounds like you want to play bot vs bot. If that's your thing...great. Just not for me.

The internet and the world in general are not an equitable playing field and there is no reason to think that poker on the internet should be any different.

My counter argument has nothing to do with what I want to happen, but with the natural progression of things. Poker on the internet will eventually be bot vs. bot, there isn't really any denying that.

Much like in the progression from hand to hand combat to blunt weapons to bladed weapons to firearms, etc., there are always people who complain about how new technology is unfair because it has an advantage over their old technology, and they will list a million reasons why it is unfair. Inevitably though, proponents of old technology either adjust to the new or, if they are incapable or unwilling to switch, they just die off.

again

adjust or gtfo

also, you're just excluding finding a good seat as a "problem" when you refer to problem solving just so that it will fit your argument, which is pretty poor form friend

Unless you can explain to me how finding a good seat isn't a problem that players face?

It is a problem, which is made worst by scripts.

I saw a few threads you started. You had a $50 bankroll in 2011 and a $200 bankroll roll in 2014. I'd rather have poor form than actually be poor.

So you're recanting your statement that you think HUDs are fair and Seating Scripts are not?

Oh nice, it usually takes longer for Neanderthalians like yourself to realize they're wrong and resort to mindless insults to my character because they can't come up with a strong counter argument. Good job.

Doesn't it make you feel stupid to realize that a player as ****ty as myself is actually a proponent of scripts when one of the main arguments on your side is that fish will get annoyed by them?

HUDs are information that still require the player to make their own decisions with or without that information.

Scripts are automation of an operational function. That automation favors the guy with the best technology. Fastest wins. As I mentioned, the script automation process has value, but should be run by the poker room. That way they can devise controls to regulate an equitable system.

Feel free to have the last word and answer this post itt, but after that pm this Neanderthal with any direct responses so we stop hijacking the thread. GL at tables.

While you make a notable distinction between HUDs and scripts in that an HUDs output still requires combination with human input to be useful, that doesn't necessarily imply that scripts are unfair.

Now, you seem to be hung up on a level playing field. Sure, lets get a level playing field.

How are we going to equalize for IQ?
How are we going to equalize for attention span?
...Dexterity?
...How long you can sit comfortably in front of your computer?

Don't you think we should be equalizing for these things which clearly offer much more of an 'unfair' advantage than a script? Surely, based on the need for a level playing field, we should not be pitting people with an IQ of 75 against a person with an IQ of 135+, that is not fair. Right? The higher IQ guy has way better poker abilities and is able to manifest them into more useful and profitable lines. Since the lower IQ guy isn't capable of the same things as the high IQ guy, we should handicap the smarter one right?



I'm not going to PM you to save you any embarrassment when the conversation we are having is highly pertinent to the thread.

Maybe, but that isn't what this thread is about. AFAIK, players are often unable to find ANY seat in the current climate. OP, and many others are wanting to play and start games with regulars but are unable to.

So the scripters will kill the games and no longer have a living for themselves and then they'll stop playing and there wont be a problem anymore. It's nothing more than the standard boom/bust of an economic system.
Historically it's been made clear that even in highly regulated economies, there are always ways to circumvent the regulations in a way which is poor for the economy and good for an individual. If an economy is more communal, regulations will be broken less often, if it is more individual, regulations will be broken more often.

Given the highly individual nature of the poker economy, problems like this will always exist regardless of the regulations put in place, and, for the third time, players need to adjust or gtfo. It is irrelevant if gingtfo means that some people have to give up their living as a poker pro because they can't cut it anymore. The ONLY thing that entitles someone to a living as a poker pro is to be able to beat the games right now in the current moment. Otherwise, #getgood


If this thread was titled "seating scripts are making the games ****ty, how can we as players improve this?" I probably wouldnt be in here arguing.

One of teh few good poast.

Zoom would even be a nice game if it wasnt for teh fast fold button...

huds and scripts are both ****

why

stop flooding the thread. you had 11 of the last 28 posts. final warning.

Datamining could be detected and could be effectively enforced. It might require some intrusive technology but it could be detected and enforced.

Stars has your full play history. If they check the data you have on other players and it is greater than what you played against them that is proof that you are using a dodgy database..

The legal HUD could easily be set to have an API with the client that allows Stars to check if the data being used is legal. No API and no sign up to cheat detection then no support for that (banned) HUD.

Alternatively the only HUDs allowed could be cloud based using yoiur legit Stars data with no ability to add hands to your real play record.

Every single one of my posts itt is pertinent to the topic, final warning for what? lol

Twoshae, I don't think we ever played or talked to each other since you pretty much quit when I started playing but I've read at least a couple posts of yours in the past.

I was confused when you came here making your first post, as I used to think you are more of an ego guy. Doesn't really match up for someone like you to put effort into posting here whilest you are not even playing yourself and then argue for a standpoint you probably wouldn't have defended at the time you were playing.

Not very hard to tell that you have personal value in seating scripts. I would guess you have your own stable or shares on one that is massively profiting from seating scripts.

I might be wrong about this, excuse me if so, but if the sole purpose of you to come here, is to protect your business out of greed and to the price of other peoples fair work that makes you a classless scumbag.

I think scripts should obv be banned and also there should be no waiting lists (unless there are limited number of tables). Why the f should there be any waiting lists in micro/low/lowmid stakes? It just makes no sense, there are enough players to play with. Or stars should just make new tables out of ppl who are in waitlists. Makes me sad to see 10+ ****ty bumhunters in a waiting list in nl50.

Gonna make a quick division first:

-Recreationals: they deposit money to the network. Most valuable to the network. The lowest the ratio (deposit/rakepaid), the more valuable the player will be for the network. That's one reason for cutting the highest stakes, money just doesnt last long.

-bumhunters: scripters get into this category but the best example are HU bumhunters. Basically a very high ratio (cashout/rakepaid), since their winrate is very high. Less valuable player in the network

-Normal regs: they want to play recreationals, but they are willing to fight for tables, so their ratio (cashout/rakepaid) is lower than the bumhunter's. That makes them more valuables for the network.

Ideally, every network would like to have all his players from 1st category, but thats not going to happen, so if they could choose, having a mixed pool of players in categories 1 and 3 would be allright. Lots of players fall between those categories, but I dont think they are relevant for this analysis.

A big problem I see is that the current system is unfair with the normal regs, who are more valuable than the bumhunters. It's not a completely unfair advantage since I think every reg who doesn't have a script could get one paying without an issue. Most of the regs, however (and I include myself in there), think that being part of the problem is not a solution to something that right now is making recreationals clearly aware that they are being targeted and hunted down.

It has got to the point in which normal regs don't feel like battling for tables anymore, since the R issue is making recreationals join less often their tables (you basically cannot join sometimes), and it becomes annoying when you see someone who is not battling for that table getting the best seats effortless anyway.

I know its almost imposible to ban Scripts, and Im not tech-savvy, but one thing Stars could do would be perhaps modifying the format of the tables, making them harder to read for scripts then obligating scripters to update their software at the same pace that Stars does. I don't know if this is being done already, but it's clearly not working and could be a patch to give back normal regulars the incentive to keep battling for tables.

ALL sites need to incentivize table-starting.

At the moment the 1 or 2 players that open-sit a table are worst off, as other players just wait until a rec player sits and then sit to their direct left.

In some extreme cases I've noticed, what happens is that NO pros will even open-sit a table, simply waiting and hoping that another pro will so they can then jesus-seat the rec. Obviously this is bad news for a poker site, no tables open = no games = no rake.

The first 2 players sitting at a table should get double rakeback / VIP points for every hand they play at that table.

Last things Stars wants is headlines saying "Stars bans X accounts their year, tens of thousands of dollars seized." Recs don't know or care about seating scripts so why scare them away for nothing in return.

Clearly they do. You don't think someone who has tens of thousands of dollars to drop notices that when they join a table it insta-fills?