Contributing nothing is still better than actively seeking to have a evil and negative effect on society. Like Banks, Bill O'Reilly, the United Nations or the people who write Malcolm in the Middle.

I take monies from inhabitants of other countries and spend those monies in my homecountry's economy.

My society should love me.

And they do.

This is perfect, cuz poker players to provide a service to the recreational players and that is the entertainment of competitive gambling. Thats all there is to it.

Poker players generate rake which produce profits for the poker sites. Poker sites pay taxes which help boost the economy.

STFU

Does no harm?

[ ] Investing in oil tycoons does no harm
[ ] Investing in multi-billion dollar food franchises does no harm
[ ] Investing in Wal-Mart does no harm

Investing in any corporation does immense harm to the working class, the global economy and the material world.

Investments = advancements in technologies = higher productivity = surplus value = decrease in labourers value = decrease in wages

please, STFU.

It's cute how op thinks he's enlightening us all on a dead horse topic that's been discussed ad nauseum well before and after he ever showed up. Seriously, gtfo.

What Ophidion said.

My OP does have its shortcomings; maybe the following will make it more clear what I mean.

A long time agon when I was rather new at online cash games, I had an unreal winning streak. I won $3000 in no time, which is a lot for a beginner at $1 tables. And I did not win it because of good cards, but I was lucky in another way - in that week almost every table that I sat down at had a player who would go tilt. Too dumb to understand variance, I thought I could be a poker pro if it was that easy.

In that period I started to think what life would be like. Getting up when I wanted, playing poker when I wanted (as long as I got around 30 hours per week done), and loads of free time. No boss. Awesome.

But then I wondered if this really was what I wanted. When we start playing cash games, we think of top pros in Las Vegas who take the money of bored rich idiots. No one gets harmed.
I realised that in online poker, that is not what really happens. Hardly any money comes from rich idots. Most money comes from people who care about their losses. I would be making money on making other people feel bad (and in some cases even worse).

And I realised that I wouldn't be able to tell people in the real world what I did for a living, because of just that.

And that is what I mean when I say 'it is not a job'. Don't fool yourself into thinking that this is just a job like every other job, only with better working conditions. It isn't.

Remember the chapter in Barry Greenstein's book where he takes the money from the farmer, who then says "well, now I can't go on vacation with my family". Barry then 'felt bad'. And continued to play poker. I don't want to become that kind of person, even if I could.

yea, sitting on your arse watching deuces cracked videos, multitabling and posting on 2plus2 is much more demanding/challenging than almost any other jobs.

No online poker without advancements in technologies. Try to make sense.

Also, no more rude language please; Brit this means you! This thread has already been closed because of that. I am not going to insult anyone in my future posts and apologise for offenses in the previous posts.

I'm not denying online poker requires advanced forms of technology.

I'm disagreeing with your statement that investing does no harm to society.

This is so lol its ridiculous. Someone posted about quantifying payment and you ignored it. instead, you came up with this gem:

so like, did you actually think before you typed this? poker situation. you outplay a fish. that is, you do something. they give you equity, which equates to money (long run). they pay you to do something! just because you're getting paid from multiple people you don't know, doesn't mean you're not getting paid. i dont get how you can possible dispute this?

Also, you have to think about the grey areas. What about full tilt pros? They get regular payment whether they win or lose. Their job is to play poker for a company. Surely that defines poker as something that can be done as a 'job'?

Tbh, and I really don'e mean to be rude, but I think this idea is ******ed. Someone posted the definition of a job

There are no limits on what you classify as your trade or occupation or profession. It's a regular activity, and you recieve payment. By definition anything you ever choose to do with your life that earns you the slightest bit of profit can be considered a job, since you can work for yourself. I think maybe your argument is more skewed towards whether society accepts poker as a job.



HOWEVER i don't disagree that poker players don't contribute anything to society. Even though i'm sure it could be argued either way. This isn't part of the whole 'job' discussion though because they're not related. People who work for the mafia as hitmen have 'jobs' but they don't really contribute anything to society lol. Stupid example but whatever it applies.

Bottom line, contributing to society has nothing to do with whether you have a job or not, it's more about your personal code of ethics and whether you're a selfish person or not.

Also i just thought an example of people contributing society but not actually having a job would be people volunteering overseas or in general just doing alot of free charity work. These people have things they regularly do that helps society to improve, but they don't get paid so they don't have jobs. Of course some people do get paid but I know of alot who don't. Contributing and having a job aren't directly related, though most of the time they happen to go hand in hand. End of thread.

so working on the stock market also aint a job?

Hate to do this OP...but...

Payment:

1. something that is paid; an amount paid; compensation; recompense.
2. the act of paying.
3. reward or punishment; requital.

It does not have to be in exchange for anything.

Do they have these in Germany?

i don't multitable, i don't watch vids, and i dont post on 2+2 alot, but nice try

i do spent a lot of hours doing stoxevs and playing yeah



also, saying that multitabling isn't more demanding as most other jobs is just dumb. the amount of decisions you have to make (even if it's just routine like decisions), the amount of information you have to progress, ... is just a LOT more than you have to take in at any regular office job. you make some good points but then you post crap like this and everybody makes fun of you, which you probably don't want and makes for boring threads

It is a shame that I cannot add to my original post. It would be helpful, because many posters like these three do not read anything but the first post.

Everyone please take a look at #82. Thanks.

no, that's what you think. i'm fully aware some (maybe most) of the money i make come from addicted degens that gamble with more than just disposable income
Why is this a problem? Does a bartender care when someone drinks too much and might regret it later? No he doesn't, and if he does it's because the law requires him to (not letting ppl drive drunk etc). Does a car salesman care if the moron that clearly can't afford it buys a sports car on a loan? Not all marketing is just information, do you think marketeers that advertise products we don't need in a way that makes those who can't afford them wants to buy them are doing something wrong? Do they not have a real job? A banker that gives a loan to someone that probably won't pay it back, is he to blame? Or is is the fault of the dumbass idiot that wanted a loan to buy **** he can't afford? People are responsible for their own choices, this includes the people i play against.

well i can understand that, but why force those beliefs upon everyone else? i have no problem telling people part of my income comes from gambling addicts. I don't understand why i should feel bad telling that and a bar manager that also makes part of his income from alcoholics shouldn't. And if he should, well, then a lot of people don't have real, honorable jobs.

and once again why should your side of that ethic debate be the universal truth?

well i have no problem with that. and it's also pretty funny that you insinuate barry is a bad person for playing poker an doing stuff like this when he gives a lot to charity and clearly isn't an egoist heartless bastard

Just ban him already.
Why does a forum need some guy talking to himself?

Although I admit I did skip over that post, I don't really see how it changes anything. You're still trying to argue that poker isn't a job. Except you give different reasons for this opinion.

This new reason is that you don't want to take money off people. Great! Now we've read the opinion of someone who understands that poker is a nasty game at heart and will ruin many people's opportunities in other areas of life.

This doesn't mean that some can succeed and call it a job. Also in your quote in #82, you say

This goes against the whole argument of the post GODAMNIT WHAT THE **** AM I DEALING WITH HERE SERIOUSLY. This tilted me hard. To some people poker IS like every other day job but with better conditions. To stock traders who are employed by a company it would be like that but with better conditions (I would imagine).

Can you just admit that this poor excuse of a thread is basically you outing your opinion that poker isn't a lifeworthy choice for you, and therefore you think that it's not comparable to every other day job for everyone else?

Thank you, come again.

i'd just like to say that i knew bartj was an idiot before anyone else knew

Seeing as I quoted you from a post other than your OP it would seem I did read more than just that.

Also can you explain how post #82 addresses anything close to your definition of the term "payment" which is what my post was about.

Ok so Bart can you just confirm the below and then im done here:

At first you claimed that poker isn't a job because you don't contribute to society. Then you said that it's because you don't get 'paid'.

Then when you got owned about the definition of getting paid and the definition of a job, you changed your reason to the fact that you couldn't handle taking money off people (for a living) and telling peers that you do so for a living.

So basically poker isn't a job, FOR YOU.

Is that correct?

Wow this thread is so annoying!

Unless you are a shill, prop or sponsored player, being a poker player is not a job as you are not employed. You are not being paid. You are winning money playing games. It may very well be your occupation but it is not a job.

Just like a a guy who trades stocks at home, he is self-employed; he doesn't have a job. But let's say someone like Morgan Stanley pays him to trade, voila he is employed, he has a job.

A guy panhandling does not have job, yet he makes money. If someone paid a bum to panhandle, maybe got him a sweet corner and an awesome cardboard sign in exchange for 1 corndog and 3 cigarettes per hour, then he would have a job.

As for not contributing to society bs, get a clue. People don't get jobs to help others. They get jobs to make money, to help themselves. Most jobs contribute virtually nothing to society, and even if they do, it is not charity.

So let's recap:

A job is something you get paid for doing, and do because you like money(not to help society).
Playing poker professionally, is not a job, but is something people do to make money.
Making money and helping society are two separate issues that really don't have anything to do with each other.

Seriously, could you get over this payment bit already? It is nothing to do with this thread.

I said "no payment". I meant "no one pays you for what you are doing". Big deal.

You said it yourself.

nice read