I invest in a taco shop. That taco shop sells drugs out of the restaurant and launders the money as fake sales of burritos and nachos. I (allegedly) didn't know anything about this and got my profits.

You're saying I don't have any money that came from the sale of drugs? I'm not asking if I knew about it or could get convicted of it - I'm simply asking where the money came from.

If you say the money I received did not come from the sale of drugs, you're an idiot. If you say that it did, Phil Ivey is gambling with stolen money. It's exactly the same thing.

Regarding my previous posts on baccarat, NVG'ers may find it beneficial to do further research on this subject.

Not played blackjack in any casino since the early 1990s when I played a lot of UK casinos for a bit until I was banned from all large UK casino chains within about 3 months of the first hand I played, then I played in a lot of Casinos in Las Vegas, Laughlin, Reno, and Statine in Lake Tahoe. Where I was backed of from about 18 of these casinos.

What's your point?

Are you turning the money over once you find out where it came from?

If I were Phil Ivey and the money was stolen from the poker community, I would have at least joined Phil Galfond and Tom Dwan in offering to pay some of it back if we never got repaid. And I certainly wouldn't be flaunting the money by playing ****ing $200k/hand baccarat before we got paid back.

It's shocking that not only are people not pissed off by this, but need to have it explained to them why they should be offended.

Your comparing apples to oranges and I think thats what is confusing you.
The board of directors issues the dividends and they make sure that the money is there. Its not my fault if the company makes the wrong decsion or mismanges the funds.

10-15 years ago there was a gold stock that went thru the roof. people made millions on it as reports indicated they discovered a huge gold reserve in south america. The stock went up like a rocket. Then one day it was announced there was no gold and the stock dropped like a stone. It was the sameday the person who discovered the reserve, " fell out of a helicopter and was killed" The shares became worthless and some shareholders lost everything they had on the deal. The company went under and the shareholders had no one to sue.

But not all shareholders lost their money. The smart ones sold the stock as the price went up and made millions and they made those millions from false company reports. They didn't earn illegal money,they bought and sold stock in good faith and made the money. Thats the same idea that happened to Ivey and the other shareholders who did not assume a position in the company. Thy recieved dividends in good faith from their investment

Because legally, I have no right to his money. I would be within the law to sue the board of directors that made the poor decsions about the way they handled the money. By law, not only can I sue them, I can go after their personal effects aswell.

Can you please answer one question. Why aren't the DOJ going after all the shareholders and not just HL and CF?

I would be upset if I saw CF or HL spending that kind of money.

Phil Ivey might have cleaned out the casino if he demanded to be paid in cash on the spot. Las Vegas casinos must have the cash on hand to cover all the chips in play. Are London casinos not required to have enough cash on hand to pay out winning players? Aussie whale Kerry Packer effected the bottom line of the MGM Grand with his multi-million dollar blackjack win years ago. I think Ivey broke the bank with his Punto Banco win and casino the couldn't cover. Historic!!!

Baccarat or Punto Banco can be beaten via card counting. Did Ivey count? What count?

di·vor·cé (d-vôr-s, -s, -vr-, -vôrs, -s, -vr-)
n.
A divorced man.

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/phil-i...e-court-22149/

Ivey was degening at these stakes just as high before FTP became huge, and from all the pokerroad shows its pretty clears he's not trying to flaunt his wealth, there's a reason why no one in the world except maybe barry knows his net worth, he's not trying to impress other people, he just likes gambling

HL made it clear Ivey didn't give a **** about the board meetings or anything on the business side, and should be culpable to that extent, but there's no reason for us to be criticizing him for not guaranteeing anything like Dwan/Galfond. While it's generous, Dwan giving 1-2 mil or whatever it was is not really going to do anything to the scope of the hundreds of millions accounted for, and there was never any real plan of how it would be distributed, and who should get preference in getting their money back. If we were as rich as ivey was, i think we'd find it hard to care about managing ftp from a day-to-day logistics side, and i don't think ivey had the skill set to do that...the overall issue here isn't ivey or the other principals, its the overall problem that ftp was running and taking deposits after black friday and they thought that it did not apply to poker, which is obviously complete bull****

As to your question why so many ppl are defending ivey, its because he's one of the true "heroes" in poker in terms of who we look up to, he's the one everyone wants to be, beating the highest cash games and the best players, not caring about money, being able to degen it up at the highest level for the fun of it, and i feel as though the way ivey has acted before this makes us seem likely to side with him...i agree that his silence was unwarranted because of his status, and he should speak out, even if he hates it (which he obv does)

Lets see a picture of the gorgeous Asian woman right now!

Now, now, now!!!

I have stated multiple times I'm not talking about the law.

You understand my point. For some reason you keep ignoring it and trying to make another point. One I don't disagree with. No, he's probably not going to jail. And no, he probably shouldn't. That doesn't mean he's any less of a ****ing douchebag for flaunting our deposits like this.

feel bad for him :(

None of them, believe it or not.

The law is the only thing that matters. If it bothers you that he has money, then I can not help you. He isn t flaunting your deposits, you have got to get over that. He has money, alot of it.

What ever money you had on FTP will be paid back to you. Forget about Ivey, don't worry about it

Okay, I don't understand this type of law.

What's to stop me from setting up a company, getting 100 million dollars in accounts from clients, then giving out "corporate distributions" to my best buddy equaling 100 million dollars, then telling you I mismanaged the company and declare it bankrupt, while my friend walks with 100 million bucks to live in London, roll craps and bang Asian hookers? And your only recourse is to sue me and take my used car and apartment?

That can't be right.

By the way, the knowledge that Ivey received just under a mill a month in payments AND a 5-10 million dollar loan while the company wasn't keeping player money segregated does add a douchey air to all his high rolling.

Is there any chance we can get that Do the math person in here and beat this dead horse about a million more times now

I disagree that the law is the only thing that matters. There are plenty of things that are perfectly legal that one would also be completely justified being pissed off about. Phil Ivey playing $200k/hand baccarat with our deposits is one of them.

CF doesn't like spending money.

I hope this all works out fine.

0% chance Ivey was cheating. 0% casino would be anywhere near bust. Just sore losers and want to double check everything before they dish out $10 mil

What a terribad business decision.

He was playing with the interest that was earned from everyone's money that is on deposit.