One of the last pro-commentators stated that Phil's comeback would be even unlikely if Veni didn't know the game. Now Runchucks tries to relativise everything by telling us that he had even bigger swings and that we "shouldn't bug with too many details and just realize how privileged we are to watch this". Oookaayy.


I'm out.

Would Phil, knowing he cheated and would be crushed otherwise, extend a rematch offer on any other site while doubling stakes?

Whoever believs he's actually bad but somehow knowingly cheated must pool your money together, stake VV and accept the challenge on another site, otherwise this whole discussion is bullshit.

Regarding the RTA claim, I doubt VV wouldn't notice if he straight up played perfectly like a solver. We can assume VV knows solvers inside and out, the days of private dream machines is over. Everyone has access to the "dream machines" now so if Phil really was playing like a solver it would be obvious, especially to VV or whomever else is watching and actually understands how a solver plays.

Is that the accusation? Seems like people are just armchair speculating while having never even looked at a sim in their life

how come nobody posted such graph yet? 50 BI swings both sides within 20k hands. could easily shut doubters yet there isn't such graph in the thread yet all of you are poker players.

You are misinterpreting what others in this thread are calling "cheating".

Cheating is also being able to study the full hand histories (the hands that didn't go to showdown with VV's holecards). That would have lead to an edge after the restart and ALSO to an edge on all future matches.

For the life of me I can't figure out why any pro would want to play on RIO, because after playing a significant amount of hands there you know there's a possibility that your game is out there for Phil & friends to dissect on ALL OTHER SITES.

Yeah guys, bring it.

That would imply that VV's game is so exploitable that just studying the hole cards inbetween matches suddenly gives you a 50bb/100 edge FOR LIFE. big lol

+1

Go to HSDB and look nearly any graph. Look at Veni's graph there.

last few pages have been unreadable

Im not that familiar with HSDB. The only graph I see from Veni shows a swing amplitude from +70ish thousand to -70is thousand and it is not specified over how many hands (but just years). Can you maybe show the one you are referring to?

No look at any in the top ten searched Jesus Christ. tldr Swongs.

to think phil G has any need/reason to cheat someone in a self issued challenge, much less on his own site RIO is completely ridiculous. i play online, with 4 cards all day long and see swings like this happen all the time, everything seems completely normal and above water here....

@Airblaze I did. Also, where is that swing in Veni's graph?

Your tendency to say things that are made up and then ignoring it when being confronted with it is pretty pathological. Or was it just one of your "throwaway comments"? Lol, pathetic.

Most HSDB Graphs have huge swings in them is a pathological lie. OK dude.

just f stop. u making a fool of yourself.

Have u ever played a single session of plo ?

Have 10+ years of graphs for plo. Ive seen swings in single session this big. Im dumbfounded by the above comments.

I posted this a few days into the challenge. I don't think 50+ BI swings are the norm but they def can and do happen. Ben86 lost $1.2m then won $1.7m at 30k cap 500/1000 v Isildur a few years ago in the space of what? 10k hands? Lars won $1.2m at 100/200 in a couple k hands last year.

Simple resolution- have a 3rd party give Phil a lie detector test after the match.

All of this!

so its okay for veni to go on a million dollar upswing but suspicious if phil does the same thing??

Defenders of Phil need understand that during the VV challenge break, Phil is not only down $900k. He also has $2.5M of side bets locked in.

Assuming that you’re in this position and you’ve just been CRUSHED… you’re down $900k … you’ve been out of the game for years and have NO EVIDENCE that you can still compete at this level… and now you're also on the hook for $2.5M in side bets...

Are you telling me that even the THOUGHT of cheating would not enter your mind? All humans have survival instincts for self-preservation. Rationality and morality do not apply to a human who is at risk of ruin.

But I guess none of this is relevant because Phil Galfond is not human, PHIL GALFOND IS A GOD!!!!!

And posts like that suppoused to make it better? Nobody cares if you don't like the few pages in this thread.

When Phil Galfond jumps into water, Phil Galfond doesn't get wet. Water gets Phil Galfond.

The question was about a 50BI swing in both directions in 20k hands. And you stated that Veni's HSDB graph would show that, although it doesn't. And when I tell you that you start referring to HSDB lifetime graphs as a comparison.


Is it so difficult to understand? I have endured swings that big to the overall population, but we're talking a whole different scenario.

BTW, when you've experienced swings with an amplitude of 50BIs in one session then pls don't talk at all.

just go ahead and shut the **** up ******

you said "i'm out" and then proceeded to make like 5 garbage posts in 15 mins lol

Wrong. I'm sure most people agree that they would like posts like yours to stop, not his.