Is dead the moment you loose motivation.

I think many people like to bury their head in the sand on these issues and pretend they don't exist. Or they will "put up" with it in order to play against the 1 or 2 genuine non-cheating human players at the table.

Many games on some networks are just completely unplayable and unbeatable due to bots and collusion (not on Pokerstars, but I'm talking other sites).

it might not be dead but nl online is 94 years old in a nursing home unable to walk or feed itself

If you think its dead your a losing player imo.
If your a Pro and just play online you should mix it up playing some live mtts and some online mtts since they are super soft.
I dont understand why people are saying is dead I know atleast 6 people at my Uni me included who can do poker next to studying as a sidejob and its better then any mcdonalds etc student job.

but how much do you earn?

and not to be patronizing but the poker dream wasnt <100k/year

im from the uk so £10 an hour?

right you can play a bunch of tables using a bunch of software to grind out a little better than some ****ty college job.

in other words it's basically dead.

What's your sample size and how long have you been playing?

Generally speaking, anyone who says it's not dead is almost always a relatively new player who hit a short term heater at the beginning. Put in some real volume and you will see what people mean when they say it's dead.

Top Post in NVG? Poker confirmed busto.

sadface

True or False:

The online poker sites themselves are around 50% responsible for poker dying or seemingly dying (to me) or starting to die; by way of cutting player rewards and continuing to do so. (thus eventually or potentially ruining their own businesses)

No. It's not dying, it's just going back to the natural order of things.

For a long time you had people casually playing it at home games and in casinos. These were difficult to get to, required gathering people to play, etc etc. Furthermore, the stakes for some of the biggest whales wasn't high enough to satisfy them because simply getting a game was difficult enough, getting a game with high stakes was orders of magnitude more difficult. Basically, unless you were in Vegas or a major city (and knew where to play) then you'd have a tough time getting in more than a weekly home game.

Then around the same time that the internet was taking off and speeds became fast enough for live interactions, we had the poker boom. Poker was everywhere and these whales didn't need to fly into NYC, they could just pull out their laptop and play.

A select few of the better online players at that time were able to easily pick apart these whales. But it was less about their general talent than the fact that the stakes they played were so high that they basically had exclusive access to the whales. Had the whales sat down at NL2 then their loss rate would have been about the same.

I'm not trying to slander those gods of online poker, they were and still are great players. But they were beneficiaries of circumstance more than anything else. Look at all their graphs, they all got large cash infusions over brief periods. Often times you see a flat line or a gradual decline from losses after a brief run of millions and then they finally quit. These were due to sessions with those whales. Some whales lost millions spread out to less than a dozen players.

Those whales are gone now. They've smartened up to the fact that they are dealing with people with dream machines and they don't really stand a chance. This is why private games at casinos are now becoming an increasingly common thing. In macau, at the nosebleed table, one seat is always reserved for a whale. The reason for this is that without the whale, the 9 other pros at the table wouldn't be sitting there. This is why so many of those online greats from the past no longer play. The source of the income is gone so why bother playing against equally talented opponents in a raked environment?

Poker isn't dying, it just temporarily got a speedball injected into the jugular and now it's going back to being clean.

Yes you can still be profitable, you can still make money. But the days of grinding at break even and just waiting for the founder of Cirque du Soleil to lose $3 million to you and 4 others over the course of an evening are over.

Any profitable NL25 player today would have made millions if they had the financial backing to play in those games.

World governments are the death of online poker. Nothing else comes close.

That is kind of a nonsensical statement, as it applies to pretty much all activities and industries where skill and training tools improve over time. A journeyman UFC fighter today would crush everyone in the UFC 1 days (even without weight classes).

A 2019 professional utilizing the proper coaching, software tools and information simply did not exist back then, so saying someone today would do well in a different era means nothing unless one includes some form of actual time travel, and if that is possible then I can think of better ways to make money than grinding online poker.

The boom could never be maintained . hell , the us economy at that time couldnt be maintained. banks were giving loans , mortgages and reverse mortgages. a bunch of average people had money ( for the time being) . now its back to reality , the reality of the working class people in the usa and most likely everywhere else dont make very much ****ing money and people cant afford to dust off 1k or even take a vacation.

its crazy to think that people in the late 1800s and early 1900s were able to come up with a few grand to gamble here and there but its nearly impossible for an every day joe to do that now adays. if anything is gonna change people have to start business and bring money into there own local economies or nothing will get better. people have to learn to haggle for the price of vehicles and houses . learn to not take loans with bad interest rates. i think the root of all problems right now are 1st diet , 2nd environment , 3rd mathematical illiteracy. i think if an average person improved in these areas everything would improve overall.

You literally posted to call what I wrote nonsensical and then spent an additional paragraph explaining why what I wrote was accurate.

Dude, you need a better hobby, you suck at being a troll. It's obvious you're just looking for an argument so badly you're willing to contradict and argue against yourself.

Also, nowhere did I say that poker as a career was a good decision these days. As a former player myself, I'm usually one of the first to jump in on threads telling people to stay in school, etc.

Because it is both. Of course a player with all the tools and skills today would crush 2004 games. However, those tools did not exist, and the players of today did not exist then, so it is also a nonsensical statement, while being technically correct.

A single brigade of soldiers from today would win pretty every war for centuries if they were around back then with the equipment from today. What does that exactly prove?

That is a completely different topic, and whether a person should play poker as a hobby or career is something that depends a huge amount on where they live and what their other prospects are as well, including staying in school.

Sounds like leaving this industry was the correct choice for you to make, although perhaps you should have done it sooner based on the tone of your posts. Still, congratulations on recognizing when the environment is not one in which you can succeed, even if you would crush it 15-20 years ago with time travel.

All the best.

dude... just as a refresher, you agreed with what I wrote and then attacked me for being accurate. Now you're doubling down, further agreeing that what I stated is accurate.

You just feel a need to argue and be a dick for no reason. What I did is literally no different from stating 2+2=4 and then you responded to call me a dumbass stating that obvoiusly 2+2=4 and 2x2=4 as well.

I left a decade ago, decided I didn't want to become one of those older guys with nothing but poker available to them

I pity people like you, you are pathetic just going around inventive false narratives to argue against because your own life is so utterly worthless you find nothing better to do than to invent fights with total strangers. In all seriousness, if your life is in the gutter so bad this is your hobby then you should seek some help or counseling.

Well, hopefully hurling insults at others on the internet makes you feel a bit better, even though you still think that agreeing that a statement is accurate also forces one to agree it is a meaningful. No idea why you believe this, but you clearly do, so much so that anyone opposing it is a troll that requires you to get into a lather and hurl personal insults at ( I see you edited your post to take out the really whiny stuff), but then everyone is different in how they handle things, and some people do not have particularly good emotional control.

I will try once again to explain my position, and I will use smaller words if that helps you. A well trained player today using all the tools from today could beat nearly everyone if they were transported back in time to 2004 to play those games. That does not mean anything, because that match-up cannot happen without actual time travel, so saying it, while technically true, does not mean anything. That player did not technically exist, so no - he could not make millions in those days for that reason.

Now, does that mean that all people missed out on the opportunities of that era? Hardly, and indeed those times created some massive opportunities that one did not need 2019 skill and knowledge to make bank so to speak. A quick search of your threads shows that you did not trust the sites those days so you stuck to freerolls to be safe. The irony is in those days I ran a decent sized online casino bonus whoring team, and one of the things we all did back then was post about how corrupt the sites were, mainly to convince others to not put money on to see how much easy money there was at that time. We all knew it could not last, because nothing like that lasts forever, but knowing that a lot of people like you actually believed that all the sites were corrupt, and stayed away, when an easy 5-6 figures a month could be made with minimal risk shows me that what we did was the right approach for 2004-8 using 2004-8 tools at the time. No time travel needed .

All the best.

This

Fast forwarding to 2010 and you were mass coaching on Skype for an hourly 50... What happened bro?

Think you have me confused with someone else as I have never "mass coached" (whatever that means) on skype. In 2010 I was backing players (still do today) and had quite a few coaches working with players at the time, many of those coaches made videos for the various coaching sites at the time (is this what you mean by mass coaching), so perhaps that is what you are remembering. Been a decade so a lot of people remember things wrong over that period of time. The casino stuff continued for a while in the 2010s, with a crazy one on Will Hill (very specific game) after they moved to ipoker that was worth upper 5 to lower 6 figures a year (done properly with a team), and it lasted for nearly 2 years because I do not think anyone else discovered it but me, and nobody did it other than my group or others I informed of it. Not sure what year that was in (started about a year after Will Hill joined ipoker and then tweaked their games and reward program), so probably somewhere in the 2010-2015 span. Of course after that there were still plenty of crazy opportunities including the insane Skrill deposit benefits, which also lasted well over a year. That also was in the mid 2010s I believe. Plenty more from then to now still exist, but how one approaches things has changed, because the industry constantly changes.

Anyway, people in 2010, just as they do now, claimed that poker was dead. This industry is constantly changing, but there are always opportunities in it, although most fail to capitalize on them (true in any industry) and eventually resort to the false belief that if they knew back then what they know today etc. etc.

Here is a thread created in 2010 talking about the "good old days." Quite a fun read. Enjoy.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...d-days-676038/

Yeah these long ass posts usually coming when you're about to catch a little heat. By mass coaching I mean providing coaching publicly for the masses, but should that be blurry maybe others don't mind to chime in to clear this one up?

Yeah, I can see that a 300 word post would be too much for some. Regardless, I never did "mass coaching," but I am not saying that because that type of coaching would be good or bad, so I admit I am not quite sure why you are obsessed with the mass coaching concept (is it a bad thing to even do?) I never did cooking training videos either. Hope that helps. I kept this post under 100 words, so hopefully that was small enough for you to handle.

All the best.

Let's just ramp up the insults when getting destroyed, classic loonies, eh?