News: Massive PLO bot ring on pokerstars. Millions of hands. Huge winners. - Page 4 - Poker News

I usually call people who post that type of post idiots

but right now I think you're right. In 10 years, it's gonna be a bot nightmare. It's gonna be completly unplayable

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06-09-2015 , 06:50 PM

#77

Roger Mainfield

Big Raaaaaaj

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,200

The linked thread is very interesting and what seems to have been uncovered is terrifying.

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06-09-2015 , 06:51 PM

#78

ouinosino

adept

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 838

lee, buddy, where are you?

come out of your ****ty hole and give some answers.

btw. this might be absurd but could it bet possible that stars has bots for any type of game?

the fact that they seem to run ridicilous hot and are crushing is a little bit strange. would be some nice little extra money for stars..who knows everything is possible...just asking

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06-09-2015 , 06:54 PM

#79

omnishakira

High Troller

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 9,732

seem like a huge ******ed risk to do that

i doubt it

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06-09-2015 , 06:56 PM

#80

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Thinking that stars wants bots on their site is absurd. Only low populated sites benefit from bots. It is actually very possible to fight bots but more money has to go into it by hiring smart people.

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06-09-2015 , 06:57 PM

#81

DarkMattersMan

adept

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 960

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouinosino

Of course Its possible. And anybody to shoot you down is deluded. Doesn't have to come from the top. Could always be a few rogue employees.

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06-09-2015 , 06:57 PM

#82

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,160

It's unfathomable that pokerstars themselves are running bots of this kind. Please don't post about that anymore, it takes away from the seriousness of this.

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06-09-2015 , 07:12 PM

#83

AntoniusBlock

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 19

Stars needs a dedicated anti-bot team, involving at least one postgrad level statistician and one postgrad level computer scientist. They should also be acquiring any commercially available bots they can get hold of to better work out how they can be stopped.

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06-09-2015 , 07:17 PM

#84

200zoomgrinder

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 366

Best/simplest solution I have heard to bots in a thread is to have some sort of face up card burning preflop. Basically, burn a random number (should probably change each time, maybe 4-6) of cards face up preflop for all players to see. This would be pretty devastating to precomputed solutions but wouldnt cause much headache for players, esp if the number is reasonably low.

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06-09-2015 , 07:24 PM

#85

Donator1979

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 76

How many of these bot rings are run by pokerstars? No one will ever know

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06-09-2015 , 07:25 PM

#86

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoniusBlock

lol at "one" of each. Postgrad means nothing in this field of expertise.
Also they already have a dedicated team but that team has no innovation apparently, with how bots that should be detectable but are making it a year or more without being detected

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06-09-2015 , 07:49 PM

#87

KingOfSwings

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 109

No words from Stars yet but their security rep has a few posts today in the rigged thread. Maybe once he's done over there he can post a new graph showing that bot number is actually down compared to last year.

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06-09-2015 , 07:54 PM

#88

bumpnrun

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,888

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donator1979

How many of these bot rings are run by pokerstars? No one will ever know

Be careful with talk like that, PokerStars Lee Jones is known for PMing dissenters threatening to close down their stars accounts

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06-09-2015 , 08:16 PM

#89

HiDhere

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 310

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loctus

It's unfathomable that pokerstars themselves are running bots of this kind. Please don't post about that anymore, it takes away from the seriousness of this.

This is the same stupid thing people used to say about why UB, Absolute, Full Tilt, Microgaming etc would do something and they always did. The simple reason is $ and more of it.

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06-09-2015 , 08:20 PM

#90

Cashcid Linc

Verified MTT and Mindset Coach

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by WateryBoil

Tournament bots would the easiest by far, it would be the hardest/most impossible to collude(mtts) but it shouldnt be hard to bot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfSwings

Bots beat NLHE up to NL2000 years ago. They beat zoom PLO200 in 2014/15. What makes you think they can't beat MTT aka the softest form of poker?

you guys mix up the level of play in the given formats with the level of complexity of the format itself. ICM, different stacksizes, increasing blinds, stack utility considerations, etc will def make tournaments way harder to beat for bots

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06-09-2015 , 08:38 PM

#91

sthief09

Josh.

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 20,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashcid Linc

how is this something a human would excel at moreso than a bot? this doesn't make any sense to me. it expands the game tree somewhat, but is much easier for a bot to either learn to be programmed to factor in (especially ICM)

not to mention 30bb poker is orders of magnitude easier and more computationally efficient to solve than 100+bb poker

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06-09-2015 , 08:58 PM

#92

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnishakira

but right now I think you're right. In 10 years, it's gonna be a bot nightmare.

I think you misspelled "months".

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06-09-2015 , 09:36 PM

#93

DirkkDiggler

banned

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 427

cant believe stars did nothing. that news can cost them a TON in brand damage.

just imagine a papernews like forbes,wall street journal or whatever saying ''online poker : the new way to become millionaire with bot system"

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06-09-2015 , 09:43 PM

#94

walkby

adept

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,056

Any cliffs on whether the rake paid by the bots was refunded?

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06-09-2015 , 09:57 PM

#95

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,160

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkby

Any cliffs on whether the rake paid by the bots was refunded?

Dude players who have played thousands (tens of thousands?) of hands at MSPLO vs them have gotten like thirty bucks

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06-09-2015 , 10:27 PM

#96

walkby

adept

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loctus

Dude players who have played thousands (tens of thousands?) of hands at MSPLO vs them have gotten like thirty bucks

That's a travesty. PokerStars needs to remedy this and release an extensive transparent breakdown of the money they raked and how it will be paid back, along with the rest of the funds seized.

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06-09-2015 , 10:53 PM

#97

james_harrison

self-banned

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 288

url=https://imgflip.com/i/moqp5]

[/url]via Imgflip Meme Maker

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06-09-2015 , 11:10 PM

#98

StopTheBot

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 10

I believe the solution may be fairly simple. Bots rely on being able to read images/pixels on a poker table. If you make the colours of/on cards and player
action indicators dynamic (changes in pixels between hands barely noticeable to a human) then the bot will no longer be able to read information from the table.

This relatively small software change could potentially completely eliminate the problem.

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06-09-2015 , 11:14 PM

#99

walkby

adept

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by StopTheBot

This is complete speculation but I think bots read changes in the software to identify the cards.

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06-09-2015 , 11:22 PM

#100

StopTheBot

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkby

This is complete speculation but I think bots read changes in the software to identify the cards.

At the moment the vast majority, perhaps all, read pixels directly from the tables.

Likely they might look to your suggestion as an alternative, but by interfering directly with the poker software they would expose themselves to other detection methods.

It should at least set botting back many years.

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