Agreed.The decrease in bots, and cheaters will just be the sugar on top....

not entirely sure but how will stars know youre running software\VM's on the original OS when youre running stars inside the VM? or am i being stupid...maybe i am

pls do it we are sick of you western low IQ people robbing us. ty

low iq? Were not riddled with cheats and bots buddy. And if we have such "low iq's" why do we have money and you guy's don't?You don't even understand what Roger meant btw

Here is a post from a botting forum:

They will not ban you for the fact you are running their client inside a VM, a lot of people are doing it. They will just put a big red flag on you and closely monitor your style of play, and if you look suspicious then they will ban you.

The site must currently use inference to make a banning determination.

Stop the VM witch hunt.

Ever get suspicious you have malware on your computer that is screen capping your hands and that's why you're getting owned hu? If you took a snapshot of a fresh OS install and used that to play poker you would know that you were completely secure.

They have legit uses but mostly they shouldn't be banned because it wouldn't stop botting. Keep looking around that forum and it's pretty obvious the scary bots aren't using VMs because they don't want to be flagged. The people asking about VMs on that forum are curious college kids who want to make a 10nl bot and probably can't even beat 10nl. Stars isn't going to catch the russian mafia bots by recognizing a VM.

to sum it up:
online poker is dead, cause bots will take over.
And if the bots fail, there is still screen scraping assistive software...
it's over....

It was a Senior Member who wrote this:

What type of hard drive are you using? When I switched from a conventional hard drive to a SSD my VM ran a lot smoother.

There are senior members of 2p2 that can't beat 10nl so my point stands.

I think it is some sort of honeypot approach for stars.

Accounts on VMs do get flagged but they need more proof than that before they ban the account.

I think very few legit players have their stars client running in virtual machine so they can estimate their bot infection rates by knowing how many players are playing trough VMs.

I think your assumption is very wrong. Look at this open source project, almost trivial to implement. No VM needed.

https://sites.google.com/site/openho...rbot/downloads
OpenHoldem is an open source poker-bot-framework for the online Texas Holdem poker game."Framework" means that it is a customizable universal poker bot, which only needs your bot logic and a so-called "tablemap" for being ready to play any game and any casino you desire.

This framework does not include any collusion capabilities.

It does include:

A parameter driven engine for screen scraping and interpreting game states (tablemaps)
A logic engine for making poker decisions based on the game states
OH-script, a simplistic C-style scripting language for describing how these poker decisions should be made.
OpenPPL, a built-in English-like programming language for the bot-logic (PPL = Poker Programming Language).
Various interface mechanisms allowing for the creation of decision logic via alternative means (C++, Perl, etc)
An engine for applying the poker decision to the casino table (autoplayer)

[x]world bank
[x]TiSA
[x]life is unfair

#388
could this thread actually make things worse?

0xRNG, is there anything that can be done or is online poker doomed to this bot infestation?

As some have said before, heavy segregation should work...sth like private groups...where people know and trust each other...
but other than that, how can you ever trust a random guy out of thousands, especially with the incentive to make easy money.

Heavy segregation is the death of online poker. If it has to come to that and there's nothing that can be done in order to detect bots then it is doomed indeed.

thinking about it, if you integrate HEM and note caddy like tools in PS client for every rec to use, it would even the playing field and give OP some more time until AI improves. Would also help identifying hand sharing plot bots i guess. How much time? Idk, i am no poker ai expert.

Talking about segregation. Even if PS would only operate in western countries what would prevent those users to start botting like Russians and Kazakis do now? Strict laws against it?

Segregation doesnt all or even enough solve the problem as collusion can happen anywhere and there are no laws that i know until someone insists to sue someone, where it can be tough to prove it to ignorants.

I picked to continue playing ring as heads up action isnt that great at this time. But i will be more selective, more in plo. Though i know there is no way over this yet another handicap but that is all i have at this time.

Right now there are many loopholes in online regulation. But in the future I can see that changing and online fraud will be taken much more seriously. And with some serious legal repercussions I can see that deter most people from doing it
I don't see how botting can ever be truly stopped, but as long as it does not become mainstream the problem can be somewhat contained maybe.

Collusion is another problem, and anon tables coupled with random seating/zoom can help solve on stakes where the player pool is large.

http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/...rstars-590959/

It isn't that simple to just pick up and move + western countries don't just let any old russian or w/e move into the country.Let's be honest, the eastern europeans are killing online poker, stars is a billion dollar business, they will be long gone before stars allows them to ruin there business.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...thread-119016/

Yes we struggle. You consume far more than you need.
So yeah enjoy your time in hell.

I don't want to get into a derail, so I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this, but I need to correct this blatant misinformation. I don't know if you're deliberately lying about this, or just have a really, really poor memory.

You have received 2 infractions for derailing. You posted this:

In this thread about VPPs:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-com-1538756/

And you posted this:

In this thread about Stars' proposed 3rd party software rule changes:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1538981/

Neither thread is a "bot thread", and neither thread is "this thread".

I'll just assume that you made a mistake here and forgot what you were infracted for, but if you repeat this incorrect information, given that you've been banned numerous times before and are on a very short leash, you'll be done here again.

As I said, I don't want to derail this thread, so I plan to say nothing further on the subject.