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Old 08-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #1
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NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

All due credit for most of the actual fact finding belongs to others - I am merely repackaging and starting this new thread with the permission of NoahSD in order to make ensure the community is kept up to date and can access this story as it continues to unfold. This is an edited and updated version of the cliffs posted last night in the 2nd of the Girah scam threads, and includes information from the original "LookingforProdigy" and the "I am Jose" threads, as well as both NVG and the HS Girah threads that have been ongoing since the story broke. Please note that some side stories and theories are not included in order to condense the saga into something readable, and there may very well be some things that were accidentally left out due to the sheer volume of posts. I fully expect the NVG army to catch anything of large importance that I miss.

- New poster "LookingForProdigy" starts a thread about an unknown young Portuguese player and how he can find him. Amongst the general NVG hilarity, several well known posters and HS regs (including DogIsHead (DIH) and Jungleman (JM)) post that this "Jose" is legitimate, one of the smartest poker minds they have ever seen, that they are mentoring and turning him into a beast, and that they look forward to what they foresee as a stunning future for this kid at the top of the poker world.

*Confirmed 8/8 by moderator thac in the HS thread that the IP address for "LookingForProdigy" matches that of "girah". It remains nknown why this did not come out earlier given the months of speculation about Girah. There remains speculation as to the identify of other possible girah or DIH ghosted shill accounts; as of yet, I don't believe a moderator has confirmed or denied that "girah" is the only 2+2 account hosted from the same Portuguese IP address that the "girah" account originated from. Today (8/9), DIH claimed that he was unaware that "LookingForProdigy" and "girah" came from the same IP address.

3/2 - Girah posts his introductory thread, including his life story, which includes his full real name but declines to give his screen names due to strict instructions from his lawyers, but otherwise describes his meteoric rise through the Euro poker sites, claiming to have earned $1.6 million (per his one posted graph). Again, many well known posters and players state they 100% believe the story. Some posters question his unwillingness to release his SNs and a few other inconsistencies in his story, but for the most part he appears to have everyone's belief after a few interviews and his inclusion as a Lock Poker Pro.

Some of these other inconsistencies, which appeared minor or possibly inconsequential at the time, however, have taken on more significance as the scam has unfolded. Girah's rise through the Euro poker stakes, if true, would have shattered the speed of even JM's ascent. Accounts supposedly linked to Girah from the "LookingForProdigy" thread cannot be confirmed, nor do the stats for those accounts appear similar to the stats of his now confirmed accounts (such as the "Girahh" pro account on Lock). In short, his results seemed suspicious; however, with multiple HS pros offering to take 6 figure action on anyone doubting the veracity of the Girah story, these suspicions remained relatively low key.

- Girah is disqualified from a Lock Poker competition he initially won, for multi-accounting. He claims that his backer, who he refuses to identify at the time, logged into his account and played some PLO while he was asleep. He posts an apology accepting Lock's decision to DQ him while denying that he did anything other than allow his backer access to account. More posters begin to question the veracity of this - why would you need a backer after winning so much money? Why would a single instance of someone else logging into your account get found out and result in a multi-accounting DQ? At this time, individuals who have seen him play under his pro "Girahh" account also post that he doesn't appear to be as solid a HS reg as his reputation would suggest. Also, the circumstances of his competition win are questioned, as it appears that he was losing the competition until 3 days prior to it ending, then wound up winning $100K (and winning the competition by ~$10K) in a possible chip dumping scenario.

It has now been confirmed by DIH that a) he was the backer at this time and b) he did log in and player under the "Girahh" account. He also claims this is the ONLY time he has ever multi-accounted. However, the circumstances of his win are highly suspicious. It appears that during the month of the challenge, he was down playing his regular stakes (mid stakes 6 max); it was only when Girah suddenly switched to playing HU HS (vs an account with the SN "SamChauhaun"), that he suddenly went on a heater and won enough to take down the challenge. While the holder of this account is unknown, Sam Chauhaun is apparently the RL name of a life coach used by JM.

8/7- MossBoss posts, detailing a scam that Girah ran on himself and other regs (all of whom essentially confirm the story). Girah used Skype to urge his victims to play one or both "aggro fish" players he had found - Sauron1989 and Dollarman, and he is also adamant that he be allowed to watch the sessions in real time as they are played. Victims lose varying amounts, but some are almost immediately suspicious of the play they encounter. They start collecting evidence, and a couple of people, including sauce123, DIH, and JM all find out about the possible scam. In Skype chat with one of his victims, Girah originally admits that his friend owns both accounts, but claims that he only wanted to steer his friend some action and adamantly denies cheating, while simultaneously begging for this to not become public. Girah apparently first admits that he was, in fact, superusing (watching the victims holecards and using that information during play) but that another person (his "rich friend") was actually playing the accounts, to DIH, who relays it to the victims. Girah promises to repay the $30K the victims lost as well as an additional $30K. DIH states that if Girah doesn't pay, he and JM will, although only the $30K that was lost. Both Girah and DIH, in posted Skype logs, ask numerous times that the scam not be disclosed at all (Girah, who offers to quit poker and vaguely threatens suicide), or that certain names are left out of the story (DIH, who requests that himself, JM, and sauce123 not be named). As of now, kjemmy (one of the HS players involved in investigating and originally uncovering the scam) confirms that some, but not yet all, of the money has been sent, all by Girah, from his "Girahh" account, with the rest due to come from the "Dollarman" account (which makes it highly unlikely the account is a friends, implying that both the Dollarman and Sauron1989 accounts should be linked directly to Girah).

After MossBoss's post, Girah posts his apology. At the very least, his claim that he confessed because he felt guilty is proven false - Skype chats confirm the scam was all but definitely known before he confessed. Other victims confirm story. DIH and JM post categorical denials of any knowledge or wrongdoing. Sauce123 does as well, and is rather quickly absolved by NVG of any knowledge or wrongdoing. During the NVG inquiry, enough information comes out via questioning of victims and Skype logs that serious questions arise about DIH and JM's relationship to Girah. DIH eventually admits to logging into Girah's "Girahh" account (just the once) and also allowing Girah to log into and use one of his old, unused accounts (see his blog post for details), and apologies. He also states that he considered himself like a big brother or mentor to Girah whom he has known "a long time" (a year?!), which is his justification for why he implies that he would still move in with Girah after the scam as long as it did not become known. JM's stance on moving in with Girah after the scam became known has not been established, but he denies any involvement in this "**** storm". JM and DIH both backed Girah, and he was into them for ~$50K at the time of the scam (per DIH's blog).

Minor issue, but DIH is known to have edited, and possibly written, things for Girah. He denies writing the apology issued in relation to the scam, but admitted to polishing Girah's autobiographical post.

Current theories (in no particular order, and many are combined to form specific theories of the crime):

1) Girah is a sociopathic scam artist who conned unknown number of MS/HS regs into believing he was the next poker God. As such, his scam is believable no matter his results because lol sociopath.

2) Girah's results are totally fabricated, he was broke, so he needed the money, hence the scam.

3) Girah's results are legitimate, but he lost money (via getting scammed by a relative, putting away money for his family, run bad, in debt to backers, etc, etc) and got desperate for ways to make some (his recent known results are mediocre at best).

4) Some combination of 2 or 3 reference his results - some fabrication, some truth, unknown how much greed vs. desperation played into the scam.

5) Girah is an actual person, but a front for an unknown number of HS regs, who set him up as a puppet to get action - sub theory that JM specifically wanted action from Durr. Many people have pointed out that his known results don't seem to match his legend at all, and that his play/questions/comments at certain times seems suspect from a HS player.

There are as many more theories as there are people interpreting the events - suffice it to say that there's question into the legitimacy of Girah as a poker player and into the involvement of several HS regs into Girah, either via their association or their creation of his character (particularly DIH, JM to a lesser degree), and for what purpose.

Issues still needing to be addressed:

1) Outting of all known Girah accounts, and confirmation of Girah HH/results.

2) Amount of multi-accounting/ghosting DIH specifically needs to address this, IMO, since the idea that he only logged into Girah's account one time and got caught is highly suspect.

3) Involvement of HS regs into developing and promoting Girah, including ghosting and editing of blogs, strategy posts, and training videos.

4) Outting of all 2+2 accounts made from the Girah IP address.

Recent developments:

Sauce123 stated in the HS thread that he confronted DIH about "x", and that DIH confirmed that "x" was true. Sauce has given DIH an unknown amount of time to confess to "x", or sauce himself will post about "x".

On 8/9, DIH answered some questions in the HS thread and has been caught in at least two confirmed lies:

1) He originally stated that he never posted on the 2+2 "girah" account, which mods have already confirmed is false; DIH is known to have posted on the girah account. He later backtracked and said he forgot, and that he may have posted on the account a couple of times. Moderator NoahSD recently posted a confirmed Girah post written by DIH.

2) He stated that he has never acted as an agent for Girah. Poster Krantz in the HS thread proves that he has, in fact, contacted others acting as an agent for Girah trying to get him a coaching/pro deal.

On 8/9, a poster claiming to a representative for JM posted stating the she had advised him not to post and that an upcoming magazine article would answer all questions in regards to his role in these events.


LookingForProdigy thread:

I am Jose thread:

HS scandal thread:

*Non HS regulars are encouraged to READ the HS thread only - HS moderators have a dim view of NVG style trolling*

Original NVG thread:

Second NVG thread:

Original scam post:

Original Girah apology:

There are literally well over 100 posts I could link, so I'm going to limit it to these two. Interested parties are encouraged to search any of the attached threads for specific key words if they would like to find what specific posters have contributed.


BLUFF interviews:

Daniel Cates:

Haseeb Qureshi:

Last edited by Kevmath; 08-10-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:09 PM   #2
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

1st -- nice JOB RJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good work!
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:09 PM   #3
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Thanks for the updated cliffs, RJ. Can't wait to hear what DIH is guilty of as according to Sauce.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:10 PM   #4
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

PM me if you'd like anything added to the cliffs.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:10 PM   #5
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Thanks, now hopefully this stays more on track....
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:13 PM   #6
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Good work, hopefully x will be revealed shortly
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:14 PM   #7
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

I hope Girah doesn't end up getting arrested multiple times for threatening women or wasting his money on pickup training.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:14 PM   #8
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

So if it is too good to be prolly is.

Anybody wanna vouch for me with HSNL - so I can become an NVG star.

I promise I wont scam anyone.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:16 PM   #9
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Appreciate the job you're doing RJ
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:17 PM   #10
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Originally Posted by FoxwoodsFiend
Two thoughts:

1) This is by far the worst thing a poker player could do. It's theft pure and simple. There are a lot of questionable actions that you can excuse as "oh I didn't really think about it, but yeah now that you mention it, it's kind of messed up [eg multiaccounting back in the day when it was never discussed critically]" or "there are arguments on both sides [eg HUDs, live coaching, etc]" but this is not excusable in any way. The complete depravity required to do something like this is just shocking. He should go to jail, nobody should believe a word he says b/c at this point he's got nothing to lose by lying and trying his hardest to make himself look good, and the poker community needs to completely shun him. There are lots of situations in which somebody should get a second chance for a youthful or thoughtless mistake. This isn't one of them.
hell yes
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:17 PM   #11
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Originally Posted by Mike Johnson View Post
I`m not sure how having the opinion that it`s foolish to show people your holecards from a remote location when you aren`t 100% sure what they may or may not do with that information is `flaming`. It`s an opinion and I guarantee you I`m not the only one who thinks that way.

It`s nothing personal against the guys in this particular story. If this happened to friends of mine, I`d think it was foolish of them too
Yes, using the word "foolish" is fine, and saying you would never do it is obviously fine. But you guys clearly made fun of them, which is not something professional radio hosts would do. Still love you guys, but just didnt like how this was handled.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:18 PM   #12
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

From HSNL:

Originally Posted by wins_pot View Post
I'm not super well-informed about this but I can add a little....

1. I don't know Sauce that well, but we chat quite a bit online, and from what I've seen he might be the most solid person in poker.

2. I was always a little doubtful of the Macedo story but I never read more than a couple of pages of the original "Macedo=superstar" thread. My reason for skepticism was simple -- online poker is impossibly hard, and big winners don't just surface from obscurity. That said, I listened to his Pokerstatic interview, and he hit some of the right notes, and people around 2p2 seemed to vaguely buy his story. I had his Skype b/c at some point he'd contacted me out of the blue about coaching. I don't know how he got my Skype name, and uncharacteristically I did not return his message. After listening to the Pokerstatic interview, I messaged him and invited him to be a coach on Expert Insight. He had a few questions and at some point I said, "I'm going to call you real quick." I called him and it was the "real" Jose Macedo, and he was articulate in text chat and in video conversation. Point is: If Haseeb pretended to be Macedo on Skype or on 2p2, I'm guessing it was limited.

3. Macedo was charging $500 on Expert Insight and he never did a lesson. I removed him immediately upon hearing about the scandal. I tried to determine if his sign-up URL was Texas, FL, or Portugal, but I was not able to.

4. Given all of the 2p2 genius that is going into this thread, it seems to me that some time needs to be spent investigating the worst possible scenario. I have no particular info here at all, but the worst case scenario would be this....

Macedo has obviously shown a willingness to use Skype/TeamViewer as a cheating method and he is ruthless in this regard. The worst case scenario is simply that Macedo, working with friends or not, was sophisticated in using Skype and other methods to implant Spyware in people's computers, allowing him to see hole cards during play. There's like a 1% chance of this being the case, but it's worth looking into. Girah's join date and first post appears to be Dec 10, 2010. Sauce's computer was hacked two weeks before this in a very sophisticated way.

LOL at Brandon Adams. After showing that there is essentially NO vetting of the "experts" at his ExpertInsight website (that charges upwards of thousands of dollars per hour), he throws out a completely speculative theory with absolutely no evidence.

And they call us "nvgtards"!
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:19 PM   #13
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

don't know whether this has been posted elsewhere or not, and I know that Noah cannot post it himself, so I'd like to link this awesome post :

way too many unsubstancied vouches on this site, I think the whole scandal highlight the vouching system's weaknesses pretty well. be careful.

Last edited by JLBorloo; 08-09-2011 at 07:20 PM. Reason: English spelling tard. paging DIH.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:20 PM   #14
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Digger Dodgey Donator

I am a 6 yr old playing on daddy's account.

Now ship the free coaching/staking/ghosting/MA'ing.

I need hookers and blow -puhlease!
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:21 PM   #15
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

anybody who thinks dogishead is more guilty than jungleman ought to get their heads checked. No way in hell is jungleman innocent in this. not only has this whole thing been very shady but the lack of silence once a scandal breaks tells all. DIH has just been more vocally adamant about posting lies and coverups as opposed to just sitting back like jungle. I think its quite clear they were both using jose's name to gain access to euro sites and possibly both aided in helping him build a persona that was obviously fake and may also have helped him win the monthly poker challenge. I cant believe that jungleman would ever try and run some 'petty' scam to try and get a few K at a time but the longer he goes silent the more Ill dismiss that. 'At one point or another everyone eventually will let you down.' seems so true nowadays
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:22 PM   #16
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Theory 5 makes the most sense to me, IMO.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:22 PM   #17
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Noah or SGT, I think if you bold the most recent developments that occurred in the 2nd thread it would help.

picking up from last thread, DIH posting seemingly innocuous post for Girah is bizarre.

I believe we have firmly established that Jose Macedo's mastery of the English language probably surpasses that of most 18-year-old native speakers. It's somewhat understandable that Jose might ask his "papabear" to write his introductory piece but he would have no problems answering simple.

any theories?
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:23 PM   #18
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

nice cliffs. WHEN DO WE FIND OUT X???????
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:23 PM   #19
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Originally Posted by Zomboid! View Post
LOL at Brandon Adams. After showing that there is essentially NO vetting of the "experts" at his ExpertInsight website (that charges upwards of thousands of dollars per hour), he throws out a completely speculative theory with absolutely no evidence.

And they call us "nvgtards"!
It's scary how smart he's supposed to be and how he consistently shows himself to be an idiot.

So will people have to buy the Bluff Magazine to read the interview or is it going to be free & I assume Daniel will make money for the interview? So he makes money from the scam and then makes money selling the story about the scam, easy game.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:24 PM   #20
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

''On 9/9 [...]'' do you mean the date here? lil confused ^^
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:24 PM   #21
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

what abt the part where dih denied girah ever being in vegas a while back but recently it was discovered that girah seebz and jm have all posted from the same vegas ip
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:24 PM   #22
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Waiting for X....

Also, awesome cliffs, I like you.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM   #23
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Losing faith in humanity, esp when doing a scam yourself is so remote.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM   #24
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

Legit OP, good job.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:26 PM   #25
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Re: NEW Cliffs/news of the ongoing Jose "Girah" Macedo scandal

In on ground floor. Still eagerly anticipating "x".

Originally Posted by sauce123 View Post
Everyone is just super hyped up about this situation. i read some posts in this thread, thought a bit and had some strong suspicious about haseeb doing x, but absolutely no proof. so instead of posting suspicions on here i just called him on the phone and asked if x was true and if it wasnt what possible justification he could give for my suspicions of x. when i dont have proof i prefer to settle things between myself and the person involved in order to save them from headache and myself from being wrong and looking mean (and hope someone else would do the same for me in a similar situation). haseeb admitted to x and said he would address it shortly. if he doesnt, then i will publicly and i wanted a record of that.
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