Finally Cherokee is getting it together with the machines and dealers....



http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccap...tory/11110213/

Shout out to the bible thumpers for finally caving in!!

Still has to pass in the House and that's where it will reportedly have problems.

Also, since Bev Perdue is exiting as Governor, it is possible her replacement will strike down any measure that passes.

Hopefully, that won't happen.

Honestly, I don't know why people are excited to have live dealers. Not once has one of the PokerPro machines asked me for a tip or botched the deal. Games move faster, cost less (no tips), and have fewer (as in zero) errors.

Oh, and it makes the average gambler think that the game is really no different than the games in the other part of the casino: you bet however much is necessary to see the flop, and then you decide if you want to proceed from there.

What's not to like?

Look, I love the trappings of live poker (chips, cards, felt, etc) as much or more than anybody else, but after an hour on the PokerPro machines, I decided that the future of casino poker was electronic. I want a real live game with real chips and all that stuff - I'll play in a home game.

Regards, Lee [Speaking for myself and not PokerStars]

P.S. With that said, it's virtually impossible to beat a casino/poker-room that has a decent trout stream in its parking lot. Cherokee FTW.

^^

It def was one of the nicer casinos that I've been to, although not super big which I liked.

And it was nice not to have to tip any dealer, but you did lose out on the social aspects of the game and it is harder to read someone who effectively has to look down constantly as you too have to look down constantly. All about the bet size there.

Lee, you are spot on in regards to the PokerPro cash game tables, but playing blackjack against the house on a computer that is no doubt programmed to take your money is insane at best. I played the blackjack tables and immediately lost $200, and everyone else at my table was losing too. It really wasn't enjoyable at all. Not to mention it is on a indian reservation, so whoever is regulating the machines to make sure they are legit is probably some indian guy down the street. I for one won't be back until they get real cards for their table games. The new law will probably open up the possibility for an expanded poker room with nightly tournaments as well.

sorry, but Lee is completely wrong here. I live in Atlanta and have been to Cherokee 5 times or so in the last 2 years (just over a 2 hour drive). SEVERAL poker players I play with/talk to have absolutely no interest in making that trek to sit at a computer. They always say if they get live dealers then they'd be all over it. (keep in mind Atlanta/GA has no gambling, many drive the six hours to Biloxi for weekends) If Cherokee were to get live dealers, the poker room would boom, as would the craps tables and BJ tables etc...
I also know live dealers would be better just from going on cruises. If a cruise ship has a live dealer, the table is full with a waiting list for hours each night. If it's an electronic table, people walk by, ask a few questions, then leave. They're too intimidated by the thing.
I understand the benefits of the no tipping/more hands etc... but sitting at those tables is way too boring compared to having a table with live dealers.

I completely agree with this. I'm in Charlotte, went to Cherokee once and have had no interest to return.

The comments about the tipping and more hands are certainly legitimate ones, and for people local to the area, they are used to the PokerTek tables, but to draw a regional audience, I believe having live dealers will only be a positive in the long run. Having PokerTek machines limits their tourney entries (which are usually no more than 2 tables right now), and it deters people looking for a card-playing experience to play poker there. I'm a little over three hours away and don't play there because I'd rather wait for the 2-3 times a year I'm in Vegas or the 2-3 times a year I'm in AC to play. I have choice in casinos and games in those two locations and I don't have to feel I'm playing with electronic chips in front of drones looking at a screen.

People accustomed to playing on the machines like them - and I do understand why, but the fact remains that the majority of the poker playing pool doesn't care for them and hey are limiting their ability to draw tourney players, as well as those who want to see players, feel chips and hold cards, or even those who want to show off.

Lee, the problem with the machines is they're rigged for action. My last trip, 200 hands, got quads 4 times, flopped them twice (paid off on all b/c others were dealt coolers), had a straight flush gutshot hit against my made boat, and for a finale, got dealt 99 on KK9 board, and of course the villian had KK.
Figured I had a better shot playing on line slots or try the tribal bingo down the street.
I'm not saying it was rigged against me, b/c I got the best end of many of the coolers, but to see 5 quads and 1 straight flush in 200 hands is somewhat abnormal.
Won't be back until a level game is played at Cherokee.

A badbeat jackpot wouldn't get over $42.00 and last 2 days in this place.

Never liked the idea of electronic tables, its not as exciting and therefore proly doesnt attract as many fish. The only casino ive been at that had it was in montreal and i was really over it, didnt even sit down. Youre not allowed to rail the games from up close for obvious reasons. Its more like a ****ty compromise to online poker, granted pokerstars isnt around anymore but if im going to click buttons id rather do it on merge than in a live pokerroom.

What are these PokerPro machines?

Yes. This is a huge reason for live dealers. Live dealers expand the player pool and draw people in because it is a format they are used to seeing. There is a decent portion of the population who is biased against electronic play - whether they think the hands are fixed to generate action, they think a win rate is programmed, or they just have a distrust of electronics.

Having live dealers eliminates most of those concerns. Then you'll just have people complaining of collusion and card marking

But seriously though - live dealers attract players from larger areas making for bigger game selection and featuring more fish.

It is a cash game table where you play against other players, but your hole cards are dealt to you on your personal screen, and the community cards are dealt on a community screen. No dealers at all.

They were created because of the local laws against actual cards on table games.

BUMP!!!!!!! YES YES YES!!!! This has passed and they plan to have table games (not sure which ones they will have at first) as soon as July 4th

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-06/D9V8B8A83.htm

If I wanted to play with electronic dealers that are prolly dumbly rigged somehow, I'd play online. Even though the +'s are there, I'd still want dealers. Oh, and this state sucks and I am on the beach right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62hYTEw8QjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=187ZBNne-Oc

So many live players play live because they are convinced online poker is rigged.

Putting a machine in place of a dealer would just drive them away as they would soon become convinced that it was rigged too.

There is this really cool concept called variance. Ive been up to Cherokee at least a dozen times. Like live cards, there are good and bad runs. There is no way the tables are set up for anything other then normal play. Think about it. All the hands are recorded, it would not be hard to query the data to figure out if anything was different then expected. If they were going to rig the games it would make more sense to keep the pots small or medium, around $50 when the rake maxes out. That way the poker room is making max rake and having the player play longer. They make no more on a $800 pot then they do on a $50. But on a $800 pot one person is more likely to go broke and leave, no more rake from them.

when was the last time you queried a pokerpro machine for data to figure out if anything was different than expected? not so easy is it?

I agree with your views Lee.

However, something like 4 or 5 years ago I was in a casino that had just introduced electronic tables and several players were complaining about them, I even heard some rigged stuff.

I don't play enough live to know if that's just as common in the "real person dealer" tables, but the only potential negative that I can now see is that some of the conspiracy type players may be turned off by this, and those are pretty much the worst skilled players in the game (which makes them the type of players we want playing as often as possible).

But +1 to your post, cheaper rake, more hands per hour, less errors. Really a no brainer to me.

Everything this guy said. Hey, Lee!

In regards to the rigged argument:

These things are not manufactured and programmed by Harrahs. They are made by an independent company. This company sells to more than just Harrahs. I'm pretty sure they're sold to Harrahs and not placed there with a percentage of profits type of deal. If this assumption is true, then what incentive does Poker Pro have to program "rigged" machines. If they get busted, nobody will ever play on their machines again and they will never sell another one.

So, for these machines to be rigged, Harrahs would have needed to hire a hacker to rig them.

If you were posting in reply to me, I don't think they are rigged, I was just mentioning what I heard other players talk about when I played at a casino that had electronic tables years ago.

Rigged arguments seem to come from a certain type of player, not usually winning players, at least not seriously. I guess every once in awhile a previously winning player talks about things being rigged in a serious way, but not usually while they are winning.