90% is quite low. Saying 10% of players at the micros are going to make it isn't even close. I'd say less than a % for sure.

Nah you just aren't any good, sorry. The potential hourly at 50NL online completely dwarfs the potential hourly at live 200NL. The rake is higher, you have to tip, and you can only play one extremely slow table. Also, the painful truth of how many sessions you actually do win is right there in front of you if you track your stats whereas i doubt you track much or any of your live play. The potential for getting better by playing online is 10x greater than live also.

Good luck with your heater though.

its not about the players, most of time its poker sites, they just keep re distributing chips among all the players n they collect endless rake

Live vs random players is a lot easier than beating NL2 online

So, how much did you lose?

god damnit acehearts.





i dont understand how you get so many serious responses on such ******ed threads/ideas. maybe i completely give up on NVG now. i'm just getting way too old to be reading this 12-16 year-old nonsense.

It's easier to make money on smaller sites, not telling you which ones because i want to keep getting rich.

getgood.com imo

******ed thread

some of the ldo leveling responses are hilarious

I know nobody cares but let me say: If you listen to all people who always know better here in 2p2 what is the best to do, how you should play the game than you will realize that you are **** of **** if you dont do this.
poker is getting harder and tougher BUT its still beatable at 100NL+ and you can still make the jump from micorstakes to smallstakes if you have the will power, hardwork and want improve you skills.

If you say NO its not possible to beat somethings than you will give up before you have even try...

Martin don't listen to the h8ters bro.

You are an inspiration to millions

Nah I dont still have a 500k hands winning graph yet bro.
So I am still a jerk for all 8h+/day mass grinders who play a lot of ****hands everyday for fpp points but learn nothing than fold,setmining and go all in with KK and AA pre.

Yeah but you right you have a chance to go your way and stop listen to all ****haters here.
People try always teach you everything.

lol wp

if the rake is that bad at micros, I don't see why 1 major poker site wouldn't substantially lower it (at least at the micros). then everyone would play on that site (so they'd still be making a bunch of money) & other sites would lose revenue unless they followed suit.

I think people get carried away saying the games are getting too tough


There is always a way to beat a player/game

and there's PLO. Everyone is terrible

Plus MTT. Just run good for a few k hands and boom, BR for MSNL

Price fixing.

If one site lowered the rake substantially at micros and then advertised it and many players moved there as a result then the other sites wouldn't just sit idly by. They would in turn lower their rake as well in order to get their players back.

In the end the ratio of players between the sites would likely remain more or less the same but they'd all be taking a whole lot less money from the players. So they all agree, implicitly or explicitly, to keep their prices the same or higher. Poker Stars explicitly increased their rake at the microstakes a few months ago. Full Tilt in turn decides to also increase their rake indirectly through their 'black card'. Far from competing, they agree to keep raising their rake more and more.

The sites aren't interested in long term profits. In the very near future its entirely possible Stars and FTP might not even exist. Many powerful congressman are working to ensure sites currently serving Americans are excluded from future regulation. And even if they aren't excluded, their ability to realistically compete against PokerWynn.com, BellagioPoker.com, etc. is extremely questionable. Those very well known and trusted brands will immediately bring in the hoards of US fish which will in turn bring in the grinders. The current sites will be left with crumbs, if that. Its in their own best interest to rake the crap out of the games today since there might not be a tomorrow for them.

The only way we're going to get anything even remotely resembling a fair rake today is if players are able to unite and threaten the sites' bottom lines today.

Its kind of funny you mention PLO. I do agree the average player in PLO is definitely quite terrible. The catch here is that PLO is raked vastly harder than even no limit holdem is to say nothing of practical issues of how few games run and how slowly they play.

In all of midstakes PLO - that is $200 to $600, how many people do you think have made 100k or more this year on the tables?



Why 100k? Well thats a figure that used to be very possible to reasonably make on the tables $200NL without being the absolute best player in the games and putting in 800k hands. But those days are long gone. How many people do you think have made 100k in all of midstakes NL so far this year? That is $200 to $600NL? 50, 100, 200?



Now even amongst the best midstakes players in the world only a dozen are up 100k 10 months into the year. Even at $1000NL only 16 people have made 100k, just 100 buyins at that stake, this year. Again don't forget these are the absolute best players in the world. For the other 99.99% of players, online poker is becoming a joke. The games haven't become terribly tough, but edges have substantially decreased between players. In spite of this the sites have done nothing but INCREASE the rake which is the problem here.

If these numbers don't stand out to you enough, wait until next year when you'll almost certainly see single digits making > 100k. And it won't be long after that when nobody is making > 100k on the tables outside of the very high stakes.

Its time for the rake to go down.

Well I guess the trick is to be the best