Wait, what??

Your point only made a little bit of sense (very little) if you assumed the funds were segregated - then I suppose you could argue that if they were having trouble getting all that money moved for some reason (perhaps in other accounts where they use a different processor and are up against limits - not saying for a minute this is the case or even likely; just trying to think of ways your idea could work), they could use their own profits to pay players out. Or if they're running a tight ship and funds are segregated, perhaps more rake could allow them to hire more staff.

If the funds aren't segregated, how does more rake help them? That was precisely bpb's point - if the funds are all lumped together, all rake does is change some of the funds from belonging to the player to belonging to the poker site. They still have the same amount of funds, and since in this scenario they aren't segregating funds, their ability to pay doesn't change.

If they have enough money to pay the players, there must be processing issues, other technical/staffing issues, incompetence, or fraud of some kind, and more rake won't change anything. If they don't have enough money to pay the players, generating more rake also changes nothing.

I think it's a different reason. Payouts are longer because they are having to jump through hoops to avoid the DOJ. I'm assuming that's also why they update the software everyday.

That was my initial thought but i'm living in a foreign country where there should be no problems with the doj or anything to do with american government.

Lets say this site was opened with the intention of being a proper business but along the way they realized they werent creating enough income to pay staff etc. Now they made the choice of taking from players funds to pay costs while keeping the site operational but while doing this they had to slow down the withdraws because they dont have enough money. (Since i started on here 8 months ago i went from getting paid every week to now being on 6+weeks.) Assuming payment processors aren't the reason(i'm in foreign country and doj wouldnt effect me getting paid) then it would have to be them based on paying people as they collect more money. Their only shot at collecting money is people depositing and rake being paid.

I'm not saying this is the case but imo its the most likely scenario. From what i heard for years they were able to pay people out every 5 weeks and now it has slowed down to 2+ months. For them to get back on track they need more money deposited, more rake paid so rake can cover their expenses and players balances be kept separate.

Now that makes a lot more sense.

Sigh.

If they're already mixing player funds with operational funds, and don't have enough money to pay everyone, whether the money is in player accounts or paid in rake really doesn't make any difference.

When a player deposits money, they're able to use that to pay back players - raking that money doesn't improve their ability to pay current players.

Now if you want to argue that playing more causes some players to lose and redeposit, that's something altogether different, and if it happened that way it would obviously improve the situation - assuming the site is on the up and up. But that's a much different argument than you first presented.

You dont think they could use rake to pay people back? You said when a person deposits money they are able to use that money to pay the next wd out but if the money was kept separate you would never need a deposit to pay somebody out cause they would always have that money ready. Whats best for the site is somebody deposits 5k and plays and rakes as much money as possible without winning.

Lets say the site pays 50k a month in operational costs but only gets 45k in rake. That means they would have to take 5k from players each month. Now lets say the next month they again rake 45k and again take another 5k from players. The site is now short 10k so when a player comes in and deposits 10k, pays 500 in rake and loses 9500. The site is not back to even now cause a player deposited the money they were short.

The site needs rake paid to cover operational costs. Taking a players new deposit to pay somebody out only delays the problem it doesnt fix it.

If they start raking more then their operational costs they can use that money to pay back the money they took from players balances.

Definitely makes no sense they can't even pay out ROW players in a timely manner now. Carbon and all their supporters always cited that their money was good because they paid out ROW players in skrill very quickly because they didn't have restrictions like they do with US players. Well now they have eliminated paying ROW players out in skrill for the most part and payments for ROW are slowing down significantly in addition to US players. Pretty naive for people to think Carbon is 100% legit in terms of solvency.

So you're suggesting that they haven't been segregating balances up to this point, but now they've suddenly decided to? Um, OK. If that's what you believe to be the most likely scenario, I'm not going to bother arguing with you any more and will just agree to disagree.

Carbon has some total amount they owe all players (summation of all player balances): X
Carbon has some amount of money on hand: Y

Every penny they collect in rake reduces X while not affecting Y

If the assumption is that X > Y then as the amount of rake collected approaches infinity at some point X <= Y and they would be once again solvent.

In conclusion, collecting rake is the solution

Makes no sense in some scenarios but in others it does. I doubt that skrill wants anything to do with them if they're serving US players. In fact I imagine they have huge challenges maintaining banking relationships anywhere as a result of this. Even if they are completely above board financially you have to figure that there are special challenges for them to pay out ROW

So where do they get the money when tournament entry fees and cash game rake do not exceed the guarantee overlays (shortfalls), freerolls, and operating expenses?

Still waiting since May 4th...getting worried now. Any luck out there?

I requested mine on the April 27th, it got processed on 7/23, and I just received it today.

Tried to deposit it at my (very popular chain) bank, and they couldn't get it to process, so they are now sending it to collections and tell me it might take up to 6 weeks.

Are you aware there is a Merge/Carbon Deposit/Withdrawal thread? Lot's more info there. There is also a 1-800-632-6088 11-9 est Carbon support #.

thread is tldr;
did the sky fall?

Huh?

I initiated a withdrawal on May 29. Nothing yet.

The sky is on a slow descend. Checks are now taking up to 3 months. Skrill cashout option has been taken away from most ROW players. Carbons site changed time frame on checks now to 6-8 weeks. Still using the backlog excuse that was cited in February. Let the good times rolll

the 3 months is quicker than the 4 months it was a month ago... Having said that unless they get a decent batch this week it looks like it might be trending back again

i see, i will avoid carbon for the foreseeable future to avoid the sky slowly descending upon me

Just got my check in the mail yesterday after withdrawing on April 8. Not exactly an attractive place to deposit. It is a shame cause I like the software and MTT player pool

Mine took 3 month to get 1500 $$ I did get it though and check cleared.

Sent from my SM-N910T using 2+2 Forums

talked to a carbon rep this morning and, i wish i knew the exact phrasing, but he said something like "we have a specific number of checks going out each week and it appears you are close to the front of the line" (i've been waiting since mid-April). not big news but i think this clearly shows that Carbon is not trying to catch up or solve the "processor problems"; they've crunched some numbers and have determined the least amount of money they can pay out each week and keep the site afloat. anyone want to weigh in on the most likely outcome...

1) Carbon begins to get their act together and poker players start getting their withdrawals in a more timely manner
2) Carbon goes under
3) Carbon manages to maintain the status quo; the site continues, managing to pay their players every 12-14 weeks

a month ago i would have said #2 for sure but maybe #3...the "we'll pay you when we pay you" business model isn't entirely ludicrous and they'll keep getting enough deposits to limp along for another 6.5 years (about the amount of time i've calculated it will take to get my $ off)

I think its prob a money issue rather than a payment processor/carbon is scummy issue. They have been slowly penny pinching more and more over last year.

There's a good chance you're reading too much into that. What he likely meant is they're trying to send out x amount of checks/week because they don't want to draw attention and have the processor get shut down. It makes sense because when they said there was high volume, that was when things started going downhill. They expected less people to cash out over the next few months and that may or may not have happened causing checks to take longer for this long.

Just playing devils advocate. I don't support Carbon at all and am trying to get the last of my money off atm.