I second this. I may still play tournaments, but there's no way I'd play online cash games if HUDs are being used (legally or not). And as someone else stated, the simplest way to eliminate HUDs is to make all players anonymous to one another.

I think the only thing banning HUDs will do is open the black market to people who want to use one. Then, you have a huge disadvantage in the player pool. When it is legal, at least everyone has a chance.

that is you are claiming that sites can not effectively stop the use of HUDs by technical means. i really would like to have some coding expert commenting on this first.

Yes

Yes. Ban them, and ban them effectively.

My question is have you played there? There is a site where HUDs do not work between sessions. Players are anonymous. This is what you want. Do you play there?

I don't understand why having anonymous players is a good thing. If I play with the same 5 dudes at the local casino, I use previous information to play against them. Why should online be any different?

because online poker (and the internet as a whole) has one fundamental problem (freedom if you will): lack of social control. the information you have on your opponent makes it around the world in no time. there is no way to keep it private unless you don't generate the information in the first place. so your understanding retransfered to live poker would mean to make all stats of all live players available to anyone around the world at any time to have the same level of information in live poker than you have in online poker.

How does the info in my personal PT3 database "make it around the world in no time"? I could understand being against PTR's selling of hand histories, but this info is MY info, no one elses.

OK, but I should be able to use my own notes and observations.

I think the anti-HUD guys are seriously over-estimating the value of stats.

Eh. I am against them for multiple reasons, but mainly because they give an edge if you are multi-tabling thus allowing you to make a higher win rate. Lets say we are playing 6 tables of 6-max, I would have to not only manually track, but also remember 30 players stats (nearly impossible). The HUD gives an edge because you can just glance at the players stats and know how they play without any real observation.

Or you could just take a colored note and know almost exactly the same thing. It seriously doesn't even matter. I would be all for just banning them since so many fish are crying, but those types of fish will always find an excuse for their inability to win. HUDs banned, notes banned, hand histories banned, etc. And after online poker is ruined, they will be gone just as fast as before when they dream up some new way they are being cheated. I'm not willing to make concessions to babies.

With the games getting tougher all the time I'd be surprised if there isn't more people calling for a ban on HUDs over the next few years.

I'd be happy to see them banned if it meant better games going forward.

I used a HUD when I played online in Italy as I was sure most of my opponents did; however, if their evolution is to turn online poker into a test of who has the best computer skills and whose is the most computer savvy, then the player base will be very small. Before I left the US everyone, except me, in the two home games I played in had quit playing online because they believed it wasn't fair.

I don't know enough about computers to know if HUD's can be banned, or effectively negated through anonymous play, but if online poker is seen as inherently unfair to the average player it won't be a substantial factor in the poker world and will shrink to a very small base.

So why not use one?

this is kind of what this thread is all about. tell every recreational player to never get anywhere near an online poker table unless he/she is capable of running a HUD. oh wait, brb ..got dealt kongs on my mobile.

IMO
Max 15 tables
no huds allowed.

no being observant
this is affirmative action to level the palying field.

this

Was this because they had decent knowledge of HUDs and how they were used by a large amount of winning online players and thought this was unfair?

If the answer isn't yes I'm not sure how banning HUDs will help, lots of recreational live players will never trust online poker.

I haven't read the tread much...will Nevada sites allow multi-tabling?

so its cool to put razor blades in boxing gloves or play hockey with a shotgun to perform better?

government should ensure that the games are fair and the money is safe

sites should regulate the small stuff. in my opinion games should be like old party days with only a few tables of each limit being able to be opened, a relatively low maximum on how many tables someone can sit at at a time, no hu tables ever (or anonymous hu tables), no PTR type of stuff ever, no huds/poker tracker type stuff. an ingame support button where you can just click it and highlight a certain hand or chat would be helpful. it would also be nice if rakeback was built in and didnt require using some potentially shady affiliate

I think we should just go back to the days where no computers are involved. There's just no way to make it exactly like live poker so why even try.

IMHO, I would not play on a site that did not offer me my hand histories. One for me to analyze my game and for me to review any suspect or team play to report back to the site. And if you can get the hand histories on your computer you can create a HUD by reading the hand histories. Besides, most fish that play online are too afraid to play live with other players or are looking to play in smaller games then they offer in casino rooms. If it is legalized here in the US then it will be properly regulated which will ensure the integrity of the game for the fish and they will come!!!