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Old 10-08-2019, 05:55 PM   #6301
a dewd
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I don't get this. What do you mean by 5k limit on declaring winnings? Do you mean that in California; 5k is the threshold for declaring gambling winnings? If you win 4k you don't have to declare it as income and at 5k and above you do? If so, why would such a threshold mean "Postle was getting someone else to cash in his chips?" I can give my wife all my chips to cash in while I go to the bathroom. So what? Having someone else cash my chips doesn't mean I haven't declared my income from gambling.
But if you did not declare it, asking someone else to help you cash in shows intent. The IRS tends to look rather unfriendly on those actions.
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:57 PM   #6302
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Well worth reading the entire document, but here are some snippets that may address some aspects of the varied debates posters here are having about the possibility of multiple accomplices etc.

Clearly outlines a specific unnamed person(s) that aided directly in accessing stream data :



As a fan of redgrape's fantastic statistical analysis in regards to Postle's multiple hats and whether or not they were mathematical significant to his results, I was somewhat surprised to see that there may in fact be some sort of additional evidence in support of the bone conductor hypothesis in at least several cheating sessions.



Finally, the unnamed person's presence appears to be the individual who impacted whether or not Postle would superuse or not - not Justin as some have speculated.


Last edited by EdmontonRounder; 10-08-2019 at 06:00 PM. Reason: fixed links
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #6303
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by HarryKane09 View Post
https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...e-dc7d1610c53b

Mac VerStandig shared this. Interesting that Kasey Lyn Mills is there; the commentator that many thought was in on it. Surely if she was she wouldn't file against them
Can someone clarify why it says "King´s Casino LLC" (p.2, l.12)?

Is Stones part of the famous Czech King´s Casino?
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #6304
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I don't get this. What do you mean by 5k limit on declaring winnings? Do you mean that in California; 5k is the threshold for declaring gambling winnings? If you win 4k you don't have to declare it as income and at 5k and above you do? If so, why would such a threshold mean "Postle was getting someone else to cash in his chips?" I can give my wife all my chips to cash in while I go to the bathroom. So what? Having someone else cash my chips doesn't mean I haven't declared my income from gambling.
CA has a limit on how much can be cashed within 24 hours by an individual, without being reported by the casino. Thought it was $10K tho.
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:59 PM   #6305
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I don't get this. What do you mean by 5k limit on declaring winnings? Do you mean that in California; 5k is the threshold for declaring gambling winnings? If you win 4k you don't have to declare it as income and at 5k and above you do? If so, why would such a threshold mean "Postle was getting someone else to cash in his chips?" I can give my wife all my chips to cash in while I go to the bathroom. So what? Having someone else cash my chips doesn't mean I haven't declared my income from gambling.
What the poster appears to be saying is that a player is required to fill out some sort of tax forms (either by law or by Stones policy) if he cashes out a certain amount of chips. In order to avoid those forms the player will often cash out just under that limit. This is not uncommon whatsoever.
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:59 PM   #6306
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PraguePoker View Post
I understand that. My question wasn't so much in light of this civil suit. It was more in light of the investigation here and other places on-line over the past 4-5 days, and now making it's way into the mainstream press, with very compelling evidence that crimes have likely taken place. Major crimes, involving the theft of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And because some of that evidence is likely on servers and laptops within the casino, wouldn't the police want to take possession of that as evidence?
The answer is still the same; the police make arrests when they believe a crime has been committed. We, the public, generally are not privy to when the police will arrest somebody until that somebody is actually arrested.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:00 PM   #6307
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post

This complaint could have been a little better with a few days work. I wonder if they just wanted to get in as soon as possible without really filing the best papers they could, and will seek to amend it later.
Yeah... this is federal court... you just don't file complaints with spelling errors in them. I'm aghast. Parts of this, including the intro, were rather difficult to parse as well. And that's coming from somebody who knows the situation well.

Also, jurisdictionally... RICO? Under a wire fraud theory? There's an interstate/international communication jurisdictional requirement. In an attempt (?) to satisfy this, the complaint pleads the transmissions of hole card info by Postle's accomplices to Postle. The complaint doesn't allege (nor could it) that these communications were interstate in nature though.

Having your fallback jurisdictional hook be a class action is problematic as well. I'll spare you the details, but assuming that 2/3 or more of the proposed class members are citizens of California, there's a sweet spot you're going to have to hit where: (1) There are so many members in the proposed class that joinder of all of them into the suit is impracticable, and/but (2) There are fewer than 100 members of the proposed class. Even if you can hit that sweet spot, the court could still decline jurisdiction.

So to sum up, this complaint and approach is really underwhelming to me. I shouldnt be able to notice numerous glaring typos (my favorite is para. 148: "The Stoned Fraud Victims") on a readthrough. I shouldn't be able to instantly spot jurisdictional problems.


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Last edited by mrtoodles; 10-08-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:01 PM   #6308
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I don't get this. What do you mean by 5k limit on declaring winnings? Do you mean that in California; 5k is the threshold for declaring gambling winnings? If you win 4k you don't have to declare it as income and at 5k and above you do? If so, why would such a threshold mean "Postle was getting someone else to cash in his chips?" I can give my wife all my chips to cash in while I go to the bathroom. So what? Having someone else cash my chips doesn't mean I haven't declared my income from gambling.
I assume you need to fill out a form if you cash out for more than 5k, with your name, social security, amount won, etc., so the IRS can track it. If it's less than 5k, you are still required to file your taxes properly at year end, but you don't need to fill out the form.

I suppose it allows the IRS to track big winners at a casino, and compare it with what they file in taxes. If that money is not there as additional income, Ok, but there should be legitimate reasons for why it's missing. Postle may not want to show how big he's winning if his yearly income is declared at a much lower value. Again, there may be legitimate reasons for this, it's more about raising red flags with the IRS.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:03 PM   #6309
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by HarryKane09 View Post
Verstandig's legal argument looks very solid. There are just so many things that Stones did wrong, in allowing a suspected cheat to continue. Postle is in very bad shape now, and Stones as a business must be in deep trouble too.

FWIW, I was glad to see that Harlan Karnovsky is one of the named plaintiffs. I guess this is where "Harlan and victims" get revenge on Postle.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:03 PM   #6310
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by EdmontonRounder View Post

Finally, the unnamed person's presence appears to be the individual who impacted whether or not Postle would superuse or not - not Justin as some have speculated.

Disagree on this. Unless someone else was also out of town during that same losing session, I believe they are specifically alleging it is Justin. See also allegation 102.

Last edited by Philbo; 10-08-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:04 PM   #6311
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by auralex14 View Post
Although not evidence of guilt in and of itself, I'm very suspicious of the tournament director who supposedly investigated the allegations initially, then aggressively dismissed the Angry Pollack's claims by stating that she didn't know what she was talking about and that Postle was using the Martingale strategy. I mean, what the **** does that even mean?

It's possible that he just wanted to stick his head in the sand and was concerned that if the allegations surfaced it would be very bad for him and his employer, but wouldn't you think that at the very least he would notify his bosses? If he did, did they also try to cover things up? Why would he make a nonsensical argument about the Martingale system, which is so stupid it's comical? The far more likely scenario is that he was involved to some extent. If not, he's a complete moron.
Just speculation, but after watching some videos of the TD, I'm actually leaning towards him just being a complete moron, and not directly involved in Postle's cheating.

That said, his negligence is so egregious, it almost seems like he's a puppet--a stooge that made the whole fraud possible through is gross in incompetence.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:04 PM   #6312
HarryKane09
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by EdmontonRounder View Post
Well worth reading the entire document, but here are some snippets that may address some aspects of the varied debates posters here are having about the possibility of multiple accomplices etc.

Clearly outlines a specific unnamed person(s) that aided directly in accessing stream data :



As a fan of redgrape's fantastic statistical analysis in regards to Postle's multiple hats and whether or not they were mathematical significant to his results, I was somewhat surprised to see that there may in fact be some sort of additional evidence in support of the bone conductor hypothesis in at least several cheating sessions.



Finally, the unnamed person's presence appears to be the individual who impacted whether or not Postle would superuse or not - not Justin as some have speculated.

The unnamed person can be JFK, just that there is no direct evidence of it yet which they are hoping comes to light in discovery.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #6313
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Philbo View Post
Disagree on this. Unless someone else was also out of town during that same losing session, I believe they are specifically saying it is Justin. See also allegation 109.
That's my take as well

They are attributing negligence&shadiness to JFK
They are pointing the finger at John Doe 1

They just don't have enough to directly package these as the same person yet
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #6314
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MrFabulous View Post
Can someone clarify why it says "King´s Casino LLC" (p.2, l.12)?

Is Stones part of the famous Czech King´s Casino?
Kings, Casino, LLC is the entity dba as Stones

This from the previous action/fines taken by Commission against owners in 2016.

Quote:
KINGS CASINO LLC (GEOW-003406;
GEOW-003407), doing business as The
Tavern at Stones Gambling Hall (GEGE001337) and doing business as The Saloon at
Stones Gambling Hall (GEGE-001336);

No. unrelated to Kings in Czech. p.s. I dont think residents outside of CA are allowed to have ownership in Clubs
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:08 PM   #6315
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by HarryKane09 View Post
The unnamed person can be JFK, just that there is no direct evidence of it yet which they are hoping comes to light in discovery.
They could be reaching out to him for cooperation in exchange for staying unnamed and a much reduced penalty/sentence. We went after a company that pissed away 10 MM. Three officers, two were charged and there was a random unnamed defendant that flipped on them.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:09 PM   #6316
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by taeto View Post
This situation is similar to the 86o that got changed to 98s, except just one card got changed. Apologies if this has been asked before. It shows that in the stream it is possible to edit the RFID info separately from the live images, and in both these cases, the editing was done exactly at the timestamp at which the stream left into the outside world. What is the logical explanation for why the editing is not done at a timestamp on the stream before this happens, so that noone will notice it? Is it Taylor who monitors the outgoing stream and edits it on the fly?

It is also Taylor who monitors the RFID info as it gets recorded and warns MP when a JJ is read as J4o? Half an hour before the stream leaves the building.

Is Taylor an octopus in disguise?
This hand is nothing like the 86o hand. The 86o hand is as close to a smoking gun that we will get. In the J4o hand, there is nothing odd about how Taylor tells the booth the hand was wrong as their was 30min since the hand took place where the players could have notified the dealer that the hand was wrong while watching the stream, if there was a graphics change, then it would be like the 86o hand bc that would have had to be done in real time.

This J4o hand is very strange though. Whats mind boggling about it is that Mike folds an overpair on a 7 high board to a donk bet, when the graphics show J4o. But it's a correct fold bc he actually has JJ. So many questions about this hand. It needs to be looked at by Matt Berkey/Ryan Feldman. I brought it up to them on twitter and Ryan responded initially but he somehow didn't catch the oddity of this hand. I am hoping they read my responses.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:11 PM   #6317
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PraguePoker View Post
So it seems they think Mike had just one co-conspirator (almost certainly the person named here), although they leave room for more.
I wonder who their John Doe is. Nobody really fits the bill.









It can't be Taylor because he was around multiple times when Mike didn't cheat. It can't be Justin because he is named and they claim he should have known after watching Mike play or doing an investigation, not because he was in on it. On the other hand it isn't an outsider because John Doe "took steps to allay suspicion and concerns". That only leaves one of the commentators as John Doe afaict.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:12 PM   #6318
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Disagree on this. Unless someone else was also out of town during that same losing session, I believe they are specifically alleging it is Justin. See also allegation 109.
Not disagreeing with you, as Justin is clearly named throughout the document for other reasons. However, if they were referencing Justin specifically under that last paragraph that I posted, wouldn't his full name appear instead of "when John Doe 1 was absent to the Sacramento area"?? It certainly does in all the other sections. To me, that part of the document reads as Postle doesn't play specifically when John Doe 1 (not Justin) is out of the area due to the fact that John Doe 1 is the necessary ingredient, whereas Justin may have just covered it up after the fact or been otherwise legally negligent. It also points to John Doe 1 being the "chief confederate", not Justin.

Having said all that, in regards to the wording in section #102 which you pointed out, perhaps they are not naming Justin specifically in this part of the document until it can be proven further. I may have falsely assumed that John Doe 1 and Justin weren't the same individual due to the fact they referred to him by name throughout the rest of the document. However, not sure that anyone behind the scenes really fits the bill for the second part of this sentence about allaying suspicions - that does sound like they are pointing at Justin without naming him outright.


Last edited by EdmontonRounder; 10-08-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:12 PM   #6319
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Apologies if posted already https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...t=pn-hp-hero-1 "Graphics Company Reacts to Mike Postle Cheating Allegations Saga"

Last edited by Siggo; 10-08-2019 at 06:14 PM. Reason: added more info
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:15 PM   #6320
jal300
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
What the poster appears to be saying is that a player is required to fill out some sort of tax forms (either by law or by Stones policy) if he cashes out a certain amount of chips. In order to avoid those forms the player will often cash out just under that limit. This is not uncommon whatsoever.
I don't know if Stones issues W2G's for live cash poker games. I would imagine not; granted I've never played in California, but I've never been issued a W2G for a cash game in the US: a tourney yes, but not a cash game (although I'm not a tax expert there is an abundantly obvious reason why). Income from a cash game is purely self reported. That said, having someone cash your chips does not mean one is not reporting their winnings.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:16 PM   #6321
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It can't be Taylor because he was around multiple times when Mike didn't cheat. It can't be Justin because he is named and they claim he should have known after watching Mike play or doing an investigation, not because he was in on it. On the other hand it isn't an outsider because John Doe "took steps to allay suspicion and concerns". That only leaves one of the commentators as John Doe afaict.


It's my understanding that they are using John/Jane Doe 1-10 as there is no ironclad evidence as of yet to tie anyone directly as his accomplice. Even the best evidence that we have, the 89ss hand with Taylor on graphics, is still conjecture. They'd need proof from the casino itself to confirm all of this.

JFK is listed by name as he is the poker room manager and the one who claimed the investigation took place. He can also be a John Doe, as can Taylor.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:17 PM   #6322
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by EdmontonRounder View Post
Not disagreeing with you, as Justin is clearly named throughout the document for other reasons. However, if they were referencing Justin specifically under that last paragraph that I posted, wouldn't his full name appear instead of "when John Doe 1 was absent to the Sacramento area"?? It certainly does in all the other sections. To me, that part of the document reads as Postle doesn't play specifically when John Doe 1 (not Justin) is out of the area due to the fact that John Doe 1 is the necessary ingredient, whereas Justin may have just covered it up after the fact or been otherwise legally negligent. It also points to John Doe 1 being the "chief confederate", not Justin.
As Bonomo's Ears said, "They are attributing negligence&shadiness to JFK
They are pointing the finger at John Doe 1. They just don't have enough to directly package these as the same person yet. "

But they clearly allege John Doe 1 was both out of town during one of Postle's losing sessions and also later "took steps to allay suspicions and concerns" about Postle's cheating. Based on everything we know, that points directly at one person.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:19 PM   #6323
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)



For instance, watch this interview Justin did with Mike. Why would coconspirator want to highlight some of the absurd plays Postle makes? If you go through Postle's twitter feed from 9/30, he states that Justin had to beg him to go on. Justin comes across as a foolish fanboy as Postle sheepishly goes through hands where he knows he cheated.

As an aside, since @Mike_Postle is still open, you can view his initial public comments regarding the accusations and you'll see that nowhere in those does he deny cheating directly. He talks about is unique style, his winrate, being a single-dad, but never says 'This is bullshit! I don't cheat!!!!'

Edit: I haven't read the complaint yet and it seems like others are saying Justin is being directly implicated as an accomplice. If that's true, I guess I'm wrong and he's like Deputy Doofy from Scary Movie
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:20 PM   #6324
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Michael Buble View Post
I wonder who their John Doe is. Nobody really fits the bill.

It can't be Taylor because he was around multiple times when Mike didn't cheat. It can't be Justin because he is named and they claim he should have known after watching Mike play or doing an investigation, not because he was in on it. On the other hand it isn't an outsider because John Doe "took steps to allay suspicion and concerns". That only leaves one of the commentators as John Doe afaict.
Guys John Doe 1 is clearly Justin. They can name Justin by name to bring forth factual evidence such as his tweets while also concealing that he is a suspected accomplice i.e. John Doe 1, so as not to publicly out him before discovery.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:23 PM   #6325
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I don't know if Stones issues W2G's for live cash poker games. I would imagine not; granted I've never played in California, but I've never been issued a W2G for a cash game in the US: a tourney yes, but not a cash game (although I'm not a tax expert there is an abundantly obvious reason why). Income from a cash game is purely self reported. That said, having someone cash your chips does not mean one is not reporting their winnings.
No clue in California, but at other locations players will exchange chips for cash at the table to avoid filling out forms. The dollar limit is normally higher though, like $9k or $10k. No clue what the forms are called.
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