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Old 10-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #3451
MDR
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by boltyou View Post
Ugh, with the edge sorting thing, it's best to stay away from Ivey if you want to convince jury monguises. The best example for the casual non-poker player of a great player is probably

for better or worse

Phillip Jerome Hellmuth Jr.

(Hey, his middle name is Jerome. That's kind of like getting Ivey on the stand!)
I would actually pay to see Phil Hellmuth testify in front of a judge in this case. Obv the worst cash game player on televised history, but he know everything of taking advantage of amateurs, as that is how he gets so deep in tournaments. Which is similar to a 1/3 cash game. So your proposal is spot on.

Could bet the moment would come where Hellmuth tries to run the show in court and the judge gets enough of him, onto which he replies: do you want to be part of the Phil Hellmuth grid?
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #3452
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Since poker streaming will be here to stay, shouldn't RFID technology used for poker streaming purposes be provided by a licensed 3rd party, which then is verified by another independent authority. Kind of like RNGs work in online casinos.

Everything that gets read RFID sensors get fed into a blackbox-type of computer under the poker table. The computer is provided by the said 3rd party would delay releasing hole card data for 30-45min, before sending it to streaming studio.

So casinos wouldn't be allowed to run live streams with their DIY-gadgets in the future. Maybe that's something good coming out of this scandal, cause I mean, it was bound to happen sooner or later anyway.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #3453
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by mrtoodles View Post
I am a criminal defense attorney in CA. I've played on the Stones Live game, though not against Mike, and I've given this a lot of thought over the last few dsys.

<snip>
Thanks for posting. I'm extremely skeptical of the suggestion mentioned by some ITT that the statistical evidence we have to this point would be sufficient to convict Postle, or anyone in his shoes. Hell, I doubt a DA would even bring charges without something more incriminating. Given your professional experience, what do you think? I.e. If the only evidence was the circumstantial stuff we currently know -- near-impossible winrate; hands played suspiciously, etc -- would that suffice for a prosecution? Folks ITT are posting stuff like how it *should* be enough but that there's no way a judge or jury would be sufficiently informed to understand it or the nuances of the game but...I find it very hard to believe what we've seen would be enough to even indict, let alone convict. What do you think?
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:49 PM   #3454
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/381941687?t=8032s

Picture of mikes phone with apps. Zoom in. 2:13:52. Is that the same device found from joeys stream? What apps are on that phone. Im on mobile so i cant dissect and zoom currently. But that looks like his device he uses for sure. Is that a normal phone with normal apps?
Anyone else want to check that out? Its also a different phone than he uses on later streams when he has key and bracelet.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:49 PM   #3455
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Alekhine View Post
Ok now I know how to get hundreds of posts under my belt is to type impulsive things randomly without thinking or reading. Love the welcoming attitude you and others are bringing to the community btw. Don't think I'll feel like contributing in the future. Thanks. (Just so you know, 2+2 is on the internet)
I appreciated your recap. My posts are low though so maybe thats a negative for you too?

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Old 10-04-2019, 09:50 PM   #3456
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Anyone that has played poker seriously should believe this is 100% cheating. It's just a matter of knowing who else is responsible besides Mike. Also, this makes me wonder how many good cheaters may be out there, that we will never know of because they just hide it better.

Like, we know superuser accounts like potripper because he was stupid enough to win too much, but were there or are there superuser accounts that win just enough so we will never suspect?
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:50 PM   #3457
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Manner Please View Post
Every James Bond theory, whether it be 1337 hackers cracking wifi access points with default passwords, bracelets with cameras, secret RFID readers reading the whole deck, all these theories fail to account for several points of bizarre behavior that suggests JFK was covering up Postle's cheating. And yet people keep posting them without explaining any of JFK's behavior, like going into the chat during the graphics change to re-assert that Postle had the nuts, his awful investigations and dismissive behavior, Postle losing superuser powers when JFK was away, etc.
I would like clarification on the bolded since you have posted it so many times ITT. Which hand are you referring to? I assumed you were talking about the 86o converted to 98ss hand (since that was a graphic change) but I did not see evidence in the twitch chat and could not locate the YouTube chat.

I do know JFK had posted in youtube chat that Mike had 87 rather than 88 when Mike check called vs 99 on like a TT9x8 board.

BTW, are the youtube chats for these streams gone forever (or were they not even streamed on YouTube in the first place)? The 88 vs 99 hand which happened in 2018 shows up as a stream on YouTube so it still has a chat. Other videos such as the 86o hand do not show up as streams so they do not have a chat.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:51 PM   #3458
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Monorail View Post
Q's >>

Some post ITT said that Postle would quickly rack up and leave every time after the stream ended (makes sense if his cheating involved exploiting the stream); and the streams show entire sessions, right (i.e. it's not curated for only big hands like the old wsop broadcasts), yes?

So shouldn't there be a fairly exact tally of just how much he took out of the game? I think I saw the figure approx ~$250K ITT, but don't we have video of essentially every hand of every session he played when the cheating was ostensibly going on? And if so, wouldn't it be pretty trivial to tally it up?
well yea, i mean, if the game ended, why wouldnt he leave. people have created spreadsheats and scatterplots on this, pretty extensive work based on his starting stack and ending stack of every stream hes been in. only thing missing is his potential rebuys if any, which would be pretty laborious to sift through every second of every stream to find.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:52 PM   #3459
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lvprof View Post
I doubt it.Its not like they came up to play some 1-3 game and is whatever to them. Id be pissed if someone had good feeling cheating was going on had me sit to try and confirm it knowing i could lose tens of thousands and may never get money back. Also 1 session may not be enough to prove anything. Also if mike was under investigation he may only super use a few times in a big game because he can put out the same hourly only cheating few times session because the stakes are raised.

That is what I was saying. I would be pissed too after the fact, why not have the guys sit at their crib in vegas watching all the past streamed games on the stones YT channel before they agreed to risk thousands?



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Old 10-04-2019, 09:56 PM   #3460
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If anyone can help me put together some type of document w/ the major hand histories

relevant information pertaining to the case

Mike
Justin
Production in general
RFID
Stream


That would be incredibly helpful

So much great stuff in here - like the information about when the superusing may have started on August 22 2018
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:58 PM   #3461
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
well yea, i mean, if the game ended, why wouldnt he leave. people have created spreadsheats and scatterplots on this, pretty extensive work based on his starting stack and ending stack of every stream hes been in. only thing missing is his potential rebuys if any, which would be pretty laborious to sift through every second of every stream to find.
Got it, thanks. Yeah, I wasn't sure how detailed the streams were, i.e. whether they capture players rebuying from the dealer or chip runners, etc.

I see this post linked in the pinned OP with the breakdown, in case anyone else is wondering something similar.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:58 PM   #3462
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by CCuster_911 View Post
What I find interesting and I think needs more discussion is the fact he constantly seems to need money. Despite only playing in a game he crushed for 6 figures in less than 2 years. here is a good friend of his, who originally was attacking Veronica, coming to terms with the truth:




Wins 2 million, crushes poker for 16 years, still needs to borrow money and get staked consistently. Obviously most poker pros are the nut low with money management and not degening, but still crazy.

Maybe he is in massive debt to someone and needs to pay them back and was desperate for an edge in a game he was no longer beating with his crazy style?
100 percent at least one person in this scheme is a massive degen or an opiate addict
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:58 PM   #3463
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
That is what I was saying. I would be pissed too after the fact, why not have the guys sit at their crib in vegas watching all the past streamed games on the stones YT channel before they agreed to risk thousands?


I would like to think she didn't have ill intent but def should have told them. But also maybe after everyone including her boss said no cheating is happening she thought maybe she was wrong. We are saying this with the fact we all know hes cheating because most of us watched hours and hours of the best selected hands. She was suspect on the QJ fold vs QT nut straight on turn that isnt even a top 20 hand ive seen, may not even be a top 50 hand. So maybe she didn't she just wasn't positive enough and was afraid of ruining an innocent persons reputation.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:02 PM   #3464
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by bigdave2304 View Post
100 percent at least one person in this scheme is a massive degen or an opiate addict
I would guess mike is losing his ass both in sports and in the games on ppoker where hes a host and i would assume whoever his inside man may be losing big on the app too and this is his way of paying down the debt.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:02 PM   #3465
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

One thing I just thought of is that on the last stream they had which was after this story was breaking Mike Postle's brother played. Why would Justin get Mike's brother to play?
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:03 PM   #3466
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by locoo20 View Post
Anyone that has played poker seriously should believe this is 100% cheating. It's just a matter of knowing who else is responsible besides Mike. Also, this makes me wonder how many good cheaters may be out there, that we will never know of because they just hide it better.

Like, we know superuser accounts like potripper because he was stupid enough to win too much, but were there or are there superuser accounts that win just enough so we will never suspect?
Yeah, found myself wondering the same...and if I had to hazard a guess, I would suspect that the actual data on cheating is something that would make us sick to our collective stomachs. Technology's getting better while humans remaining as stupid and greedy as ever. I haven't played in a high-stakes home game in over 5 years, and can't imagine ever doing so again, unless I really knew the host and other players well...and even then it'd be iffy.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:04 PM   #3467
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by zica View Post
..... I would teach the jury poker and show them lots of footage of both players playing and let them decide. I may also include some math and maybe the opinions of expert players if such a thing would be permitted.
And that would create doubt and or confusion in at least one juror leading to an acquittal.

It takes some people hundreds of hours to grasp simple stuff like EV and they want to learn. A jury will be confused or lost and that is going to seed a whole bunch of doubt. Without someone flipping and showing solid tangible evidence, this is a tough case to get a conviction.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:05 PM   #3468
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
If anyone can help me put together some type of document w/ the major hand histories

relevant information pertaining to the case

Mike
Justin
Production in general
RFID
Stream


That would be incredibly helpful

So much great stuff in here - like the information about when the superusing may have started on August 22 2018
time stamp 2:10:15 investigative video #4 is a camera staring us all in the face on his wrist. When he puts his hands on his hat he is actually pointing his wrist camera to the cards

Last edited by PrecisionPunting; 10-04-2019 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Missed something
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:05 PM   #3469
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
38:45 an absolutely unreal shove with bottom pair into 2 opponents on the flop after the bet then raise. Wtf wtf wtf!!! Again he glances down between his legs. Do you guys see this? I think he knows what the opponents have because he gets a direct feed of the stream (with no delay) to his phone imo.

Also why in the hell does he recheck his cards like 4 times but that 4th time he does it nice and slow so he can see something in his crotch. Again 38:45 ladies and gentlemen. 38:45

https://youtu.be/oOxc4qbQiLo
So sick I havent seen others post this video From Aug 22nd 2018
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:08 PM   #3470
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lvprof View Post
I would guess mike is losing his ass both in sports and in the games on ppoker where hes a host and i would assume whoever his inside man may be losing big on the app too and this is his way of paying down the debt.
Almost all the floors where i work are big sports bettors. Also you would never believe how crafty an opiate addict can be when it comes to stealing (crazy **** like this!) I thought maybe the pppoker thing was just to hide money. Idk what pppoker is or that it was available in US
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:10 PM   #3471
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by bigdave2304 View Post
100 percent at least one person in this scheme is a massive degen or an opiate addict
Precisely my thoughts as well. There's an addiction lurking somewhere in this story.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:11 PM   #3472
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Monorail View Post
Precisely my thoughts as well. There's an addiction lurking somewhere in this story.
that combined with him being a psychopath narcissist.

Him thinking he can defend himself on Mike Matusows podcast reminds me of Ted Bundy getting caught and thinking he could represent himself in court and exonerate himself.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:12 PM   #3473
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Manner Please View Post
Every James Bond theory, whether it be 1337 hackers cracking wifi access points with default passwords, bracelets with cameras, secret RFID readers reading the whole deck, all these theories fail to account for several points of bizarre behavior that suggests JFK was covering up Postle's cheating. And yet people keep posting them without explaining any of JFK's behavior, like going into the chat during the graphics change to re-assert that Postle had the nuts, his awful investigations and dismissive behavior, Postle losing superuser powers when JFK was away, etc.
he could be doing secret RFID readers and still have JFK in on it.

he most likely developed a mix strategy or a backup variety.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:12 PM   #3474
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
So sick I havent seen others post this video From Aug 22nd 2018
One of the most blatant for sure
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:13 PM   #3475
lvprof
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by bigdave2304 View Post
Almost all the floors where i work are big sports bettors. Also you would never believe how crafty an opiate addict can be when it comes to stealing (crazy **** like this!) I thought maybe the pppoker thing was just to hide money. Idk what pppoker is or that it was available in US
ppoker is same as pokermaster. Its essnetially a play money app that people join private clubs and play for real money. They use an agent to square up either in person with cash or btc or some other payment. Good chance with him being an agent he was taking money in from players and was losing that money and now needs to win money quick so needs to cheat. Ive heard of multiple agents who have stiffed players for huge numbers. So now imagine your agent has sports betting problem hes basically running a ponzi scheme with payouts and starts to get furthur behind as less people are depositing and needs to cheat to stay afloat. I actually cant believe noones thought of this yet. Joey this is it this has to be whats going on. We need to find people who use him as an agent and find out if he was slowpaying out and when it started.
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