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Old 07-20-2008, 11:58 AM   #51
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by amulet View Post
Bad reality television gets old and an annoys people. When people first saw Mike they found his behavior funny and interesting. It certainly made him stand out. However, his consistent negative attitude, and consistently trashing other people, including customers of FT and "co-workers", is a huge negative to me.
I'm glad you're not Full Tilt's marketing manager

More people are attracted to poker than are turned off by it on account of Mike's zany actions, I assure you. More people are going to be interested in a site if they see someone who is crazy as **** such as Matusow, than if they see someone who is seemingly catatonic (Cunningham, Ivey, etc.)
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:00 PM   #52
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

there is a post somewhere from FTPDoug, where he says if someone does this consistently they can bar them from playing the mixed games. While I doubt they will bar Singer from playing anything.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:04 PM   #53
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

Bart you're just wrong here, don't dig yourself deeper. It may not technically be against the "rules," but it's very bad etiquette/ethics. And, more specifically, a red-name pro should NOT be doing it.

Also, it doesn't help to contradict yourself. First you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartJ385
This is not sports, people...
Then in your very next post you proceed to use soccer as an analogy.

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Originally Posted by BartJ385 View Post
For quite a while there was no strict rule about offside in soccer...
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:16 PM   #54
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

matusow types like he talks...... you a idiot imo.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:18 PM   #55
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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there is a post somewhere from FTPDoug, where he says if someone does this consistently they can bar them from playing the mixed games. While I doubt they will bar Singer from playing anything.
This. It IS against the rules on Full Tilt to sit out certain games during mixed games, and they can ban you from playing mixed games, but aren't going to do it until they get complaints.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:29 PM   #56
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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he s known as a stickler for rules. Therefore, I doubt he was angle shooting.
I don't know about Singer, but in my experience I've known tons of players who were both angle-shooters and "sticklers for rules", the latter being when it suited them. It's just another angle to these guys.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:30 PM   #57
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by snappo View Post
Bart you're just wrong here, don't dig yourself deeper. It may not technically be against the "rules," but it's very bad etiquette/ethics. And, more specifically, a red-name pro should NOT be doing it.
No one here knows if he was doing it. As I posted earlier, Singer is known as a stickler for following the rules. Given that and his very public HORSE success, it seems highly unlikely.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:33 PM   #58
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

any poker player with 1/4 a brain can see this is very very bad form. It's if you went out all the time with friends and when the check comes the same guy is always coincidently goes for a smoke or bathroom break everytime.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:38 PM   #59
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

singer is a rule abuser, and at the same time a huge nit.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:39 PM   #60
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

Singer has been doing this for as far back as I can remember.

Typical lawyer bull**** type move.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:39 PM   #61
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by snappo View Post
Bart you're just wrong here, don't dig yourself deeper. It may not technically be against the "rules," but it's very bad etiquette/ethics. And, more specifically, a red-name pro should NOT be doing it.

Also, it doesn't help to contradict yourself.
1) If you think that I cannot use soccer as an analogy because I said that poker isn't sports, then you simply do not know what an analogy is. Look it up.

2) Provided that Singer really exploited the game (most people here don't think he did, Mikey just blew up again) - a red name pro should play the game the best way he can. If this game does not work with the current rules, I see no reason why he should support it. Fix the friggin rules!
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:41 PM   #62
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by amulet View Post
A few thoughts.

Mike's overall actions on the site, on television, playing live, etc., make any sponsor look bad.

Mike doing this on the site is bad for the site.

David Singer made the final table of the WSOP HORSE final table in 2006 and 2007, therefore, I doubt he is sitting out games. Although I can't know if Singer is sitting out a certain game, he s known as a stickler for rules. Therefore, I doubt he was angle shooting. Furthermore, he has a new baby during this years WSOP, so I assume he must sit out more often then he would like.

But since "Mike is the site" he and everyone better be careful.
To make the comparison about him sitting out on FTP vs. making the FT in HORSE at WSOP isn't even close. One can nut up to "play" in a major tourney vs. not playing in the same game online vs. amateurs. Bottom line is MM is right...people expect to play online with these pros. If he's sitting 3/5 of the HORSE game cause he doesn't feel like it or whatever is BS.

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Originally Posted by Garbs View Post
I couldn't disagree more. It's Mike being Mike that got him the sponsorship in the first place, and continues to make him a favourite among viewers, and the people producing the telecasts.

He's not the site, but he's equally as big of a draw for the site as Phil Ivey, Gus Hansen, Chris Ferguson, and Patrik Antonius. Maybe more in some cases.
Matusow is the people's player...he rants just like a lot of folks in real life do playing online or sometimes live. He's a believable person that most can relate to. Him acting out of line isn't gonna hurt them.

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Originally Posted by Borys313 View Post
And he is str8 to the point with what he says, maybe its not the most sophisticated language he uses but all the arguments are valid. Playing HORSE and siting out during your bad games is angelshooting, if someone feels he is worse in some of the games he may play them tighter and no one will say a word but siting out is just a huge abuse.
+1

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Originally Posted by pricedin View Post
I'm glad you're not Full Tilt's marketing manager

More people are attracted to poker than are turned off by it on account of Mike's zany actions, I assure you. More people are going to be interested in a site if they see someone who is crazy as **** such as Matusow, than if they see someone who is seemingly catatonic (Cunningham, Ivey, etc.)
+1
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:49 PM   #63
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by BartJ385 View Post
1) If you think that I cannot use soccer as an analogy because I said that poker isn't sports, then you simply do not know what an analogy is. Look it up.

2) Provided that Singer really exploited the game (most people here don't think he did, Mikey just blew up again) - a red name pro should play the game the best way he can. If this game does not work with the current rules, I see no reason why he should support it. Fix the friggin rules!

This post is ******ed on so many levels. Sad part is that Bart thinks he's right.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:49 PM   #64
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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No one here knows if he was doing it. As I posted earlier, Singer is known as a stickler for following the rules. Given that and his very public HORSE success, it seems highly unlikely.
If Mike Matusow, Hoss_TBF, and possibly two others (JC Tran possibly being one of them) have noticed this, as well as the rail (And I certainly have, among others in this thread) then that certainly lends some credence to the accusation.

And I don't know what his HORSE success has to do with anything. Those are notoriously the weakest fields at the WSOP, it's quite different than sitting at a 6-handed cash table with the best mixed game players online.

He's also known to try to bend the rules in his favour, so again, him being a rules stickler doesn't mean he's not doing this.

***

As an aisde, another thing I've noticed that needs to be addressed is Chau Gang (La Key U) occupying a seat at 3 or 4 tables, while only playing on one at a time. He'll take a seat at two HORSE tables, and maybe two Omaha tables, sit out on all of them except the juiciest game, and only play on that one. Then he'll sit out at that table, and play on another. He does this when most of these tables have a waiting list 10 people long. He's not breaking any rules, but it's pretty ridiculous.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:53 PM   #65
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

i wonder what the rule nit singer would say if someone sat out in all the stud games against him

Last edited by zyrrth; 07-20-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:05 PM   #66
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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This post is ******ed on so many levels. Sad part is that Bart thinks he's right.
Well at least I can be right or wrong; you say nothing, so you can be neither.

One-liners, gotta love'm.

As said before, Singer probably did not deliberately sit out in the weaker games. But even if he did, it would NOT be angle shooting. Here's what an angle is:

http://www.pokernews.com/pokerterms/angle.html

Sitting out during your weaker games does not match these criteria.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:07 PM   #67
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

It's the kind of thing that is a matter of etiquette and shouldn't need regulating, yes it's within the rules to sit out certain games, but like stalling near the bubble in tournaments it's bad form especially at that level.

It seems Mike was asked to raise the subject, but rather than letting David know the situation quietly and saying that people didn't like it he came across as basically flaming him ("ushouldnot be allowed to be in red" etc). Obviously DS is going to go on the defensive at this point so it becomes a slanging match - Hoss tried to be diplomatic about it but by then it was too late.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:12 PM   #68
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

OKAY SO IS lolina Tim Phan ?????
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:13 PM   #69
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by BartJ385 View Post
As said before, Singer probably did not deliberately sit out in the weaker games. But even if he did, it would NOT be angle shooting. Here's what an angle is:

http://www.pokernews.com/pokerterms/angle.html

Sitting out during your weaker games does not match these criteria.
I don't agree with this, if I've sat down to play HORSE and have taken the time to learn how to play all the games then why should someone else pick and choose only the games that suit them...go and play on the o8 tables or whatever.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:14 PM   #70
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

And for what benefit does Singer get from sitting out? He saves a few posted blinds. If he chose not to play the flop games, and folded his blinds, no one would care. But he acts like an @#$%hole, gets the bad rap he deserves. I agree with Mike. Bad for the game, bad for Full Tilt.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:32 PM   #71
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer

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Originally Posted by Prolekult View Post
I don't agree with this, if I've sat down to play HORSE and have taken the time to learn how to play all the games then why should someone else pick and choose only the games that suit them...go and play on the o8 tables or whatever.
If a maniac sits down at a table, everyone comes running.

Someone does the exact opposite, and it is angle shooting.

Seriously, poker is not a gentleman sport.

If I set up the game and the rules don't work out, I change the rules. I don't go to the players and say: "by the way, this could ruin the game, please don't do it, even though this means giving away part of your edge." That's ridiculous.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:34 PM   #72
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

sitting out in your weakest game defeats the whole purpose of playing a mixed game
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:47 PM   #73
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

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its time for Howard L & Chris F to sack up and make a move...either move David off of HORSE, or fire David and/or Mike...
ill bet my roll they wont fire neither.

Quote:
Mike Matusow: ask the whhole tabl eone at a time ...WTF what language is that?
its english and there are only 2 minor errors. theres an extra h in "whole" and the interval between "table" and "one" is one letter off.

Quote:
This post is ******ed on so many levels. Sad part is that Bart thinks he's right.
+1.

bart, you should seriously stop posting. you went great lenghts to post the definition of "angle", but this definition actually proves you wrong. the very first sentence:
"An action that isn't against the rules, but still incorporates unfair tactics."
you honestly dont think this definition fits systematically sitting out specific games in a mixed game format?
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:56 PM   #74
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

just make it randomize the game every hand
problem solved
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:06 PM   #75
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Re: Mike Matusow and David Singer HORSE chat

Who is Hoss_TBF? and what does TBF stand for?
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