I disagree

Poker players have been making a living playing this game long before the moneymaker effect. I think dismissing that fact is short sighted. I also think there are a ton of people with full time jobs that were attracted to poker via the MME and will continue playing recreationally thus keeping those that play for a living funded for many decades to come. Poker isnt going anywhere in the forseeable future imo. The game will sustain.

Imo, the events of the early/mid 2000s werent a revelation of something new so much as they were a reinforcement of something that has been around for centuries.

+a million. Like the flip probably doesn't have that much of an ev difference from playing it out. Not sure who the other guy is but you probably have two guys who are pros playing with like 40bb how big is the edge that one has really going to be? By playing hu they are essentially flipping for this kind of money that even to someone who just won the ME is going to be significant. To people against what happened, would you be ok if there was no chop and they just agreed that playing it out was close to a flip anyway so they'd just be degenerates and actually flip?

When this happened Jake had Greg outchipped like 6 to 1 and Greg went allin four hands in a row. It wasnt an even flip.
Jake also posted on facebook that he won 1.1 ..so maybe they did chop the 200.. But i doubt they did.
Schindlers an incredible player. Really happy for him.

Who is Jake Schindler? Online names?

Ftp: Jake Schindler
Stars: CallitARush

The inherent fallacy of your comparison with football is that in poker, the players pay to play, and nobody pays to spectate. In football, the players are paid for their cooperation because of the millions of paying fans that attend and watch games. Your arguments are terrible. The players can do what they want as long as everyone left with chips agrees.

so do some guys think that it isn't important for your resume to win these events? just the money? don't they even consider that more trophies could mean more money?

I understand the argument from fans who want to see it played out. Poker needs fans and needs to show the dream of playing for a massive 1st place prize, I get all that. But what the other side needs to understand is how absolutely ridiculously massive stakes they are playing. Even if someone like Greg is "rolled" for a 25k re-entry tourney (2.5m bankroll probably isn't theoretically rolled, but he only plays like 8 tourneys a year so whatever), he sure as **** isn't rolled to play a 300k SNG, which is what the the final table essentially is. I have no problem with what they did (assuming they chopped the 200k and just flipped for the trophy?), though I'd probably want to leave something on the table to play for anyway.

And for the record I played with Jake a bunch in this tournament and thought he played very well.

I don't think people complain about them chopping, but about them flipping in the end and not "fighting" for the title and trophy.

Nothing wrong with deciding to gamble after chopping, but maybe they shouldn't have told people about their intention to flip for it. Merson could've just acted like he got a sick read the other guy is 4betting super light and Schindler should have been like "guy is shipping any two, got the right price to call off J5o".

But it's no big deal anyway. It's the players money, there's no spectators that paid to see the final table, no tv coverage and no sponsors that might think their product is harmed by being associated with flipping for a trophy.

^^BS. There is enough fraud in poker without pretentious HU play after a deal, ffs.

Lmao@"I want to be a champion"
Lmao@merson"setting poker back decades"

The poker sports analogies are beyond awful.while TV coverage is great for poker nobody wants to watch a baseball/football/hockey/basketball game played by mainly fat unskilled slobs and there is so much more luck involved in poker tournies than any sports.athletes in team sports are team employees that are paid to play and fans pay tons of money to,watch them do it. Even in golf and tennis they are basically part of a league, paid to play and fans play to watch.in poker the players pay to play.

Oh no merson cares more about money than some stupid trophy and sucked the integrity out of the game by blind flipping instead of playing riveting hu 30 blind poker. People wanna see Brady manning not tons of randoms playing poker.

Even if you're right that he would be better off playing for the trophy that's his decision not yours.you have just as much right telling lebron James whether or not to take a sneaker deal.

Lol donkaments.

Golf isn't a sport.

Since when do 99 pct of poker plays care about the poker ecosystem?they just care about themselves.

Let me guess,you like rake back,poker tracker,huds,mass multi tabling,card runners videos etc. then make nonsensical hypocritical posts about merson.

With all the variance in poker, chopping has become standard in this game.

Maybe the avg person needs to learn that.

hahahahahahah, assume this is a level, otherwise apt nick

poker isnt a spectator sport last time i checked

get in reality, nobody owes you anything. incredible sense of entitlement.

I had no problem with the chop, even chopping the 200k.

Had huge problem with Merson and opponent not playing tournament out properly. I understand the edges but so what. Still wanted to see it played out.

And was trying to make the point that as a fan who follows it I do deserve better than to see them throw their hands in the air, give up, just because no money was on line.

I always thought we were trying to make poker into a sport guys. But if even someone like Ansky doesn't agree with me here I can def see I'm in the minority.

So I will stop following poker as a sports fan, silly me, what was I thinking.

Just lol. How can u think these guys "owe" u anything.
Put up 25k, get hu and then limp tank for 15 mins every hand or do whatever the heck u want.

not to be a stickler, but, a FEW boxing PPV's did more PPV sales than EVERY UFC event combined (assuming 168 did the 1.1m that was reported).

UFC didn't do much to boxing, except make the younger generation assume it's the superior sport.

couldn't tell you what you were thinking. It's a card game, not a sport.

But that's the rub, and the dilemna for the "game" of Poker. Is it a sport? Is it entertainment? Is it a business? Is it a card game? It's got elements of all of those things.

To me it comes down to 2 opposing views about the future of the game.

#1) Playing poker is pure gambling. You take what edges you can, you reduce your variance wherever possible, and the only thing that matters is how much you win at the table. As a pro you could care less what people watching on ESPN think. You need to support your family and this is your business. We all know which players fit this profile, and most of them are on 2P2.

#2) Playing poker is a form of gaming and entertainment. Building the game of poker and attracting new players and a mainstream audience is vital to growing the game, attracting sponsors, and building prize pools. You do this by creating exciting televised events, promoting players lifestyles, branding the "sport" of poker, and attracting new fish to the game. This is what the Negraneau's and Esfandiari's of the game seem to be trying to do.

Clearly there is a huge contingent of players (many here) that believe poker will be just fine if people at home don't watch, there is little to no mainstream coverage, and the highest stakes cash games continue to take place in private rooms in Macau, Florida, etc. But that mindset doesn't help get poker legalized in the United States, attract new money to the game, or bring in new recreational players. So you end up with this sort of reverse-Moneymaker effect where the fish die off, the casual players at home tune out, and the games get tougher and tougher. That's what has happened in the last 2-3 years IMO. Chopping pots and making deals to take the drama out of the game in huge tournaments is a part of this problem.

Play for the title also or just for the money? Everyone has their own opinion. For me, Greg Merson is a stupid douchebag, specially with that interview, and that titles should matter. Otherwise the game isn't fun anymore, just a bunch of nerds trying to exploit fish without a smile on their faces. Then again, he does whatever he wants, and so his opponent.

This

But we need to create a legitimate, exciting facade to attract donators who spend their time and money on this game

This means there is more money to go around for the sharks

For this reason, it would be nice if players played out final tables genuinely

I guess Mersons already made his money and is set for life he doesnt care about this, or isnt aware of the big picture

Standard selfish behaviour

+1

I don't care what they do but potential sponsors may. Then again, any publicity is good publicity and most of us would have never heard of these two going HU if it weren't for 'the flip' <<'the flip' t-shirts for sale soon.

tyty, sick bust out hand for you btw

the variance in these things are absurd and I have obv ran wayyyy above expectation in the 50ish live tournaments I've played.

That being said, understanding how much variance there is during end game of these events I think its silly to play heads up with good opponents for tons of money on the line if you gamble for a living. Ive been a grinder my whole poker career and earned supernova elite 3 years in a row. I understand how much work it takes to grind out a 300k+ year online and to be able to lock up extra money that would take months to make in cash is just the responsible thing to do in my opinion.

I never got into poker to chase pipe dreams or to be famous in the poker world, it just happened. If i wanted this I would have been on the circuit way more before winning the main and even more so after winning. As a cash game player we keep score by the money that you make/what your win rate or hourly is.

I absolutely love poker and have the upmost respect for the game. I apologize to anyone who took offense to what i did and completely understand where you guys are coming from. Once I was done, I went back to my room to watch the PCA main FT stream and once they chopped my viewing interest declined dramatically.

To me it seemed jake wanted and deserved the trophy more than myself based on his play and for his career. If i hadn't played 2 days of cash followed by 3 days of the main and then 3 days of the HR (8 days straight) i would have been more inclined to grind for the trophy and for the fans of the game. I was completely exhausted running on adrenaline and once all the money was chopped up i just fizzled out and wanted to go back to my room and relax.

Just wanted to clear the air a bit from my side but once again i respect what a lot of you were saying in the thread and once again apologize for those people who were watching for an anti-climatic finish.

gregy