I totally agree. There is a difference. Discussion is encouraged.

Admirable of Alex Dreyfuss to try and rectify this situation by throwing money at it! Truly is noble and admirable. Putting Alex aside for the moment, I think the question I would pose is this:

Is it better to hold the TDA summit at Venetian, or not have a TDA summit at all? You could argue that the TDA summit can be done online via Skype or a conference call type format for free, but if you weigh the value of having the event, against pissing off the vast majority of poker players who don't want to support the devil in any way, shape, or form, is it worth it?

I say no. Just because the Venetian offers a free room, doesn't mean the right thing to do is to take it. The poker world as a whole is pretty united on one thing: a deteste for Sheldon Adelson. Even though the TDA isn't directly supporting Sheldon's efforts, the TDA holding their event there is a big win for Sheldon. He can argue, "I have no problem with poker, in fact I love poker, and offer free conference rooms, food, and beverages to poker tournament directors around the world. The poker world supports my efforts because they know that the internet is dangerous. I hosted all the top tournament directors in the world just this year, they ate my food, drank for free. It was great. Click a mouse, lose a house!"

At the very least, holding the TDA Summit at Venetian gives him credibility, especially if he is paying for it all. Don't lay with the devil just because it is free. If no other solution is feasible, then cancelling the event is a much better idea than having it at Venetian.

What exactly requires all TDA's to meet in person? What are the hot button issues that can't be handled on a TDA forum online? I get it's nice to meet in person, but if there is no budget, and no one wanting to foot the bill (outside the devil) then is it really necessary? How much happened in the last year that requires further rule changes?

Hi Linda:

It doesn't matter. If Addelson is successful, he'll destroy a large part of the poker industry and damage other parts, and that includes this website which you just posted on. So it's our opinion at 2+2 that having this conference in 2015 at The Venetian is like saying that what Addelson is doing is okay or at least he perhaps should get a pass.

Notice that this has nothing to do with the TDA's previous conference in 2013, and it also has nothing to do with whether the TDA should now spend money to move it some place else. By the way, 2+2 now does not accept any advertising from any Venetian/Sands property, and this decision cost us money.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Everyone:

One possible place where the conference could be held, and the rent would be free, would be at the Two Plus Two Offices in Henderson NV. We do have a warehouse area and probably have enough space for a fair amount of people (and I'm not sure how many attend this conference). And if Alex Dreyfuss would like to throw in the expense money for some food and refreshments, that would be great and it just might work.

Of course, someone would have to come by our place to see the facility, and again I'm not sure it would work, but the price would be right. And in addition, since I rarely ever play a tournament, I won't have anything to complain about.

Best wishes,
Mason

Just want you to know that your points are persuasive and have not fallen on deaf ears.

Besides first card off the deck (which many players, including yourself, vehemently disapproved of) and the shot clock?

Anyways, here's the 2013 Poker TDA rules, with changes from the 2011 edition highlighted in red:

http://www.pokertda.com/wp-content/u...2011_Rules.pdf

Here's the video of the 2013 summit, it's been a while since I was inside the 2+2 warehouse, but am not sure if it would hold enough TD's and interested players who want to discuss rule changes.

every day in the venetian poker room hundreds of players pay rake to sheldon adelson. but chainsaw, mason and dnegs are upset about TDA symbolism?

we're all frustrated that adelson's endless money is winning the war right now, but let's not stand in a circle and shoot at each other.

matt savage says holding conf at venetian is worth $30K to TDA. we should take it and pick our battles a little better.

No. Adelson should be ostracized completely from the "poker community".

Mason- I'm curious as to why you said this in the other thread about boycotting the Venetian:

Why doesnt twoplustwo call for a boycott? It seems like you are calling out the TDA for not boycotting the Venetian. You've laid out a case for the harm Adelsen is doing. So why does twoplustwo stop short of calling on players to boycott the Venetian.?

The money is no longer an issue as Alexander Dreyfus offered to foot the entire bill. I doubt it costs $30k to rent a conference room for one day anywhere in Vegas.

Also doubt that av equipment costs $5000/day to rent as Linda Johnson stated.

Feel free to share that with the 270 people playing right now, and the 100+ waiting for a table.

This is silly let Matt and the TDA do what they need to do, and let the Whiney nits who do nothing but complain rail against windmills. FWIW if Adelson knew what the Venetian was doing for the TDA he'd probably put the kibosh on it.

Mason let me share some bright spots for you, more poker rooms have opened up nation-wide than have closed. So relax yes some casinos in Vegas have closed rooms, tunica has closed rooms, but the numbers nationwide are up. Poker is doing fine, training is moving from books to on-line training (sorry you missed that boat). You just have to know where to look for the silver lining.

Please don't misquote me Allen. The conference is two days, not one, and I said the A/V is at least $5,000, which it is.

I think the part in bold is a good point.

Even for two days those numbers seem outrageous. Sorry for misquoting you, but those numbers don't matter, since Alex has agreed to foot the entire bill if moved elsewhere.

Whether it is outrageous or not doesn't change that it is factual. Vegas casinos charge $500 for a single internet line to corporate banquets/meetings. Try a little research before spouting off.

Hi Browser;

If a boycott was successful it would make a lot of good people lose their job. Thus we feel that each poker player should make their own decision.

Best wishes,
Mason

Ok there are 20 or more companies that supply audio visual rentals in Vegas. I'll wager a projector and screen don't cost anywhere near $5000 to rent for two days.

WTF they need a screen for anyway?

Also what exactly is discussed at these conferences?

I would also wager that a screen and a projector wouldn't cost that much. What's the point?

There has to be some way to package it, to make it enticing. Pacqiou (I don't even know how to spell his name but I plan to spend a bunch to watch him) vs. Mayweather. They must be doing the least here I guess. This has to be the biggest fight since the last time Muhammad Ali fought and I wasn't even alive then ... (ah ... maybe Tyson ... but he always won so fast)








Pay per view I guess.

Zo Karim is me and I am one of the few people who was part of that group of people on twitter saying he wouldn't play Venetian events and I haven't. I was just in Vegas for the Wynn 2k and stuck around till the following week. Many I know played the Venetian 600 400k gtd or w/e. I didn't. I'm trying to avoid being a hypocrit even though the tournaments I'm sure are pretty good.

I'm not gonna lie though, me and 2 friends did get our own table at Venetian to play some drunken ofc back in 2012 though for 2 hours. So, I guess unfortunately, I paid Adelson $24 or so in rake. #teamscum

With that said, I understand Matt's pov on the matter. Hard to pass up free things. My whole reason for voicing my opinion (I tend to do that a lot) is so that in the future, it can perhaps be moved away from Adelson's properties.

The Venetian put together some sick guarantees this year and Tommy is a great director. Listen many people will not get back online in the US regardless, after all the scandals, and the fact that regs now with HUD and other tools, just crush the newbies, you have no shot online, but WSOP and other big tournament series(Hard Rock ones, Cherokee, Winstar, Choctow, Borgata) continue to grow at a great rate, while those at the Commerce, Bike continue to maintain there large fields, frankly the issues with Sheldon and that of a TDA summitt, are seperate in my mind.

If there are two places offering free rooms to hold then you can maybe choose the other, but as is, stay at the V.

Hotels force you to use their equipment. If the event is being held at a hotel the costs are high.

Now obv if they had this somewhere other than a hotel they could cut down on costs. (Internet, food etc. etc.)

You are once again showing great ignorance and arguing with folks that have direct knowledge of the industry. As Royal17 correctly stated in the large casino hotels there are in-house suppliers (Encore is one of the largest) that you must use and you get raped.

If the hotel is a union signatory you must also use their personnel to set it up. When the Rio held their Poker Lifestyles convention as part of the WSOP, it cost 2x more per pound to move freight 50 yards from the loading door to your booth than what Fed-Ex charges to move it cross country.

That's an interesting point that seems to create a dilemma. I havent been to Vegas in a few years, but back then I played at the V and thought it was a great room. It's reputation esp with tourneys still seems very good. So that would imply that the management and dealers at the V are hard working, good people who have been responsive to players needs.

But given that, doesnt any anti-V actions, whether a player not plaing there or twoplustwo ending their advertising, only really affect the workers at the V versus Adelsen? He is one of the richest men on earth. He spends hundreds of millions of dollars in attepts to influence the actions of both the US and Israeli governments. There is nothing anyone in the poker community can do to affect him financially or alter his behavior. He deals at the level of governments.

So given that reality, are these actions poker players are taking simply symbolic actions that may make one feel like they are fighting the good fight, but accomplish nothing? Or worse, affect the good people working at the V poker room who have created a very positive and respected product for live players.

So does the Tda accepting the generous offer from the V really represent support for Adelson? I dont think so. IMO sacraficing relationships with the Vs poker room does not affect Adelsen's efforts but damages a valued live poker asset.