Long time member with over 1200 posts, I was just banned by P-5 re: UB cheating issue - Page 5 - Poker News

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Long time member with over 1200 posts, I was just banned by P-5 re: UB cheating issue

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07-17-2008 , 07:59 PM

#101

Fife19

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 173

Nat is scum? You're a clueless moron champ.

07-17-2008 , 08:01 PM

#102

john voight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 13,532

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife19

Nat is scum? You're a clueless moron champ.

L2read

07-17-2008 , 08:03 PM

#103

Fife19

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 173

I can read... That can be taken both ways I suppose. Retracted if I was mistaken.

07-17-2008 , 08:05 PM

#104

ASPoker8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 22,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerGodEvil

Nat, P5's and Adam are scum

Fkk you all--

Really--your a joke.

07-17-2008 , 08:10 PM

#105

mikeinyonkers

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 330

Wow...I didn't know Adam replied in this thread (wow what a dbag)..

Whats going to happen is little by little P5'S will die (the mainstays there think they're gods gift to poker). Since its impossible for new members to get up to 30-50 posts (before the banhammer comes down), all that will be left on there will be Adam and the ranked idiots (nice name for a band).

Its sad when you are a poker forum and the best thing about it is the off topic section. Heck even the bad beat section is better than PD.

07-17-2008 , 08:22 PM

#106

Mike Johnson

Former Pokercast Co-Host

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,865

Quote:

Originally Posted by spursaaaaa

Nat works for the company which own P5S, I wonder what his view is on their continuing support and endorsement of UB.

I believe that P5s owes a duty to its posters to withdraw all support for UB.
How can they associate themselves with a site the cheats and lies and we still dont really know who even owns it.

ADAM SCHWARTZ I CALL YOU OUT TO RESPOND

What would Adam Schwartz have to do with this. Did you mean Adam Small?

07-17-2008 , 08:25 PM

#107

d0nk3y

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,185

Quote:

Originally Posted by getterdone36

honestly why do you think annie posts on P5's and not 2p2???

07-17-2008 , 08:27 PM

#108

AdamSchwartz

Shippy McShiperson

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,521

Quote:

Originally Posted by spursaaaaa

Huh? Respond to what?

07-17-2008 , 08:28 PM

#109

apefish

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,618

maybe he meant Adam Ant.

07-17-2008 , 08:44 PM

#110

Pilkain

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,779

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamSmall

For what it's worth, I'm going to respond to a few things here. I don't like to make a habit of this for a couple reasons--mainly that most people who get banned from poker forums aren't really worth spending a bunch of time responding to, but also that we have a team of about 30 moderators who do most of this work, and I don't really ever hear about anything like this until after the fact. However, since this post is addressing our policies in general, coupled with the fact that Rush Street actually is a valued member of our community, I think a response is merited.

1) Why was Rush Street banned? I reviewed his moderation notes, and it's very clear that the reason he was banned is not that he made this post questioning UB and P5s relationship. I was not surprised to see this, as our moderators are all well aware that they aren't allowed to ban people simply for posting something against our rules, unless the post is really far out there or spam. This was neither, so I knew it had to be something else. Rush Street's post was removed, and he was asked via private message not to use the P5s boards to question P5s business policy. He responded by posting this in the forum, verbatim: "Ban me if you want... its easier to ban a member like me than a cheating, racketeering organization like UB or AP - because you accept their dirty money." Now, try this trick on any public forum and see if you don't get banned...

2) Why was the original post deleted? It's really simple--we don't have time to explain 100 times on our forums every business decision we make. We've explained several times already why we haven't removed UB from our advertising (I'll get to that). We're not going to every time someone makes a post about it. Furthermore, we're not going to allow our users to leverage our own traffic to try and force us to make business decisions that suit those particular users' goals.

3) So why do we still advertise UB? Contrary to what someone posted here, it's not because we're owned by the same company that runs PSO. This was my decision, just as it was my decison to remove AP from our site last fall. By the way, we and another site under our umbrella were the first two major affiliate sites anywhere to remove AP. We did it for a very specific reason: It was clear to us that players had been cheated out of money, and it appeared that they weren't doing anything about it. The deal was pretty clear in terms of what we wanted from them--get things cleaned up and refund everyone's money. Make us confident that the site is secure at this point.

As much as it pains a lot of people reading forums, our decision wasn't made in order to somehow punish AP for what had happened. It was to make a statement to them that they needed to get things in order. We wanted to make completely sure that this thing didn't blow over, and we definitely didn't want to be recommending that our members play on a site where the games very well might not be fair, or where if they were a victim of unfair play it might be ignored. Had we known this about UB at the time, we would have pulled the plug on them as well, but the way things happened with UB played out differently...

With UB, we were in close contact throughout the investigation (and still) with the top level managers there, and we were able to receive updates on the timeline for dealing with these issues. Most importantly, we were able to receive assurances that what had been happening in the past was no longer possible in their system. We've given these guys the benefit of the doubt because they have been very honest with us and seem to me to be extremely committed towards a positive future.

Now, think what you want about all that last part about UB. I don't have any desire to push anyone to or away from their site. I think it's amazing that certain members of the 2+2 community have been able to do the kind of investigating they have to move this process along, and I'm proud that one of our people here (Nat) has been such a big part of it as well.

I wish people would respect our opinion that the solution isn't to "kill UB." I understand that many disagree, but the all or nothing attitude makes it really tough to satisfy people. I don't think the people running UB need to be punished right now--I think the people who caused this catastrophe do.

Anyway, back to the real point of this post, which is that we don't ban users simply for expressing an opinion, and a warning is always sent. It seems really silly to me to make a post asking to be banned and then go to another forum an complain about being banned (conveniently omitting that you asked for it).

Obviously I'm not going to be able to get into a big posting war here, and I'm sure the 2+2 mods wouldn't appreciate that either. You're welcome to get in touch with us any time though privately. I hope this helps explain things, and if not, I'm sorry I couldn't do better with that.

Best,

Adam Small

Um, the point here Adam, is that UB allowed if not facilitated cheating and has yet to disclose who was responsible for this cheating. P5s by continuing to endorse UB is adding legitimacy to this corrupt site. I find it absolutely hilarious that you boast of being the first to separate from AP yet still allow advertising by UB despite irrefutable proof of cheating.

07-17-2008 , 08:46 PM

#111

bobboufl11

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,329

Poket Fives is teh ghey. You may find strong sudden urges to blow guys since you've poasted there so long, and unless you were ghey before poasting there you may want to look into some sort of rehab

07-17-2008 , 08:56 PM

#112

TourneyDonk

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 253

So glad to see this thread, had no idea there were so many others that had this happen. I was a member of P5's since 2005 and was banned a year ago for a couple posts and a PM to a mod calling out UB for being corrupt, which they obviously are. Never tried to get reinstated b/c they are in bed w/ UB/AP. Question: Can pre-2007 posts on P5's be accessed? There are some great posts by shills like westtexasman (Shawn Rice, epitome of class IMO). Nowadays it's ridiculous that UB is cheating its players yet Annie Duke goes on and posts about the tourney schedule and people are thanking her for all her hard work lol, completely ignoring the fact that they are ruining online poker with ever hand they deal. New management/ownership my ***.

07-17-2008 , 09:01 PM

#113

GambleAB

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,556

For the record, I like both Adam and Nat very much. I would never be abusive or mean to them. I read a couple things they wrote to which I have an opposite point of view. I hope they don't misinterpret my discourse with indignation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamSmall

Furthermore, we're not going to allow our users to leverage our own traffic to try and force us to make business decisions that suit those particular users' goals.

That doesn't make much sense. Your users ARE your traffic. People go to the site largely to post on the message board or to read things that others have posted.

Also, it's not like Rush has some sort of secret agenda that he's trying to use your forum to advance. It seems like what would "suit his goal" would be ensuring that his money is safe, which seems like it would be everyone's goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

On the other hand, people on 2p2 are not allowed to talk about Bit Torrent. Do you know why?

I would imagine it has something to do with people using that program to download things illegally, and the owners of this site not wanting to give the impression that they encourage or support that illegal act.

07-17-2008 , 09:30 PM

#114

N 82 50 24

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,795

Quote:

Originally Posted by GambleAB

I understand your opinion and I don't mean to get into an argument over BitTorrent, but... people talk about smoking weed on here, that's illegal, right? Why isn't there a rule against that? Also, BitTorrent can be used legally too. There are sites that revolve around "legal torrents" -- I once made a post about it in OOT and it was deleted despite the legality of the post.

I should state that I don't think it matters to the issue at hand, but I believe that the ban on BitTorrent discussion has more to do with the protection of the business than the legality of the issue.

All that being said, let's move on, BitTorrent is off topic. I just wanted to show that business protection can come before free speech everywhere, here included. The moral issue of advertising UB/AP is another issue, obviously.

07-17-2008 , 09:34 PM

#115

IndianaMomentum

newbie

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

I understand your opinion and I don't mean to get into an argument over BitTorrent, but... people talk about smoking weed on here, that's illegal, right? Why isn't there a rule against that? Also, BitTorrent can be used legally too. There are sites that revolve around "legal torrents" -- I once made a post about it in OOT and it was deleted despite the legality of the post.

I should state that I don't think it matters to the issue at hand, but I believe that the ban on BitTorrent discussion has more to do with the protection of the business than the legality of the issue.

All that being said, let's move on, BitTorrent is off topic. I just wanted to show that business protection can come before free speech everywhere, here included. The moral issue of advertising UB/AP is another issue, obviously.

Why take AP out of the rankings but still place their advertisements on the site?

07-17-2008 , 09:35 PM

#116

rakemeplz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11,990

"Furthermore, we're not going to allow our users to leverage our own traffic to try and force us to make business decisions that suit those particular users' goals."

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Do you even care what those goals may be? Or just about your business decisions?

07-17-2008 , 09:41 PM

#117

Fife19

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndianaMomentum

Why take AP out of the rankings but still place their advertisements on the site?

AP is back in the rankings FWIW.

07-17-2008 , 09:53 PM

#118

IndianaMomentum

newbie

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife19

AP is back in the rankings FWIW.

oh. lol nice job Adam Small.

Looks like you were really trying to stick to AP by leaving them out of the rankings for what 6 months?

07-17-2008 , 09:54 PM

#119

teddyFBI

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,596

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fife19

AP is back in the rankings FWIW.

Comment on this, perhaps, Adam Small?

07-17-2008 , 09:55 PM

#120

dDiabolical

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 378

pocketfives is, and always has been, the joke of poker forums.

07-17-2008 , 10:11 PM

#121

eastern motors

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 9,208

Rush Street,

Welcome to 2p2. Good to have you as a full time poster.

07-17-2008 , 10:40 PM

#122

Rushstreet07

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastern motors

Rush Street,

Welcome to 2p2. Good to have you as a full time poster.

Thank you.

07-17-2008 , 11:16 PM

#123

randomfrost

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 8

right on, rusostreet

07-18-2008 , 12:21 AM

#124

Bevo54

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 538

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASPoker8

Adam, I have tons of respect for you and some of the other moderators at PocketFives.com.

With that said, the things I have quoted from your post are nothing more than blatant lies. Those two statements are pretty much as far from the truth as humanly possible. While you may consider them legitimate rules for your site, to imply that they are practiced is one of the most ridiculous things i've seen posted in a long time.

I won't talk in detail about some of the other practices that moderators participate in on pocketfives.com, but I feel it is important to note that some include:
-Deleting posts and threads that offer a negative opinion about a highly ranked player on pocketfives.com
-Deleting posts and threads that offer a negative opinion about a player who is on the verge of being featured at pocketfives.com, such as a recent Sunday Million winner.

etc.

Hmm..thats funny. Cause i had a post that was deleted over there the other night and I believe it was replying to your flame post of me. I believe you said "you are the reason that poker is still profitable for people like me". I had a rebutal posted and was wondering why it was deleted.....

- Irony

07-18-2008 , 01:35 AM

#125

WutRUTryin2Hit

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,619

Yeah they ban everyone, I got banned back when I was a ******ed fish and read the site. They deleted a TON of posts once when Neteller was about to shut down to Americans, they just started banning any post about it cause they don't like anything that vaguely threatens the party line that online poker is invincible. So while a lot of people on 2p2 had a short time they could trade funds with Euros and Canadians to get their money off Neteller, ppl on p5s didn't, it was nice.

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