whatever the action you take at the end, (and steal "weakly dominates" split), the real challenge is to make your opponent split. there are many interesting ways to do this.

It's so fun that this is a poker forum and people are ******** on Liv for taking the +EV move.

Ahh NVG, where Misogyny and hatred of women is stronger than logic

Why do you think someone tries to be on gameshows? To make money sure, but to also get on tv. You think all the photo shoots and everythng else isn't a way to get famous?

Is your point that people change? Well maybe she's a different person now since she has money. I like her and respect her toughness but this video bugs me.

THAT is the problem with you math guys. It's NOT ALWAYS the plus EV move. Just because the theory says that you should always pick steal does not mean that the situation means you should always pick steal. There are in fact some situations where it makes more sense to pick split.

NVG hates women poker players because they get picked for sweet sponsorship deals and aren't the best players. They are used by the poker sites to exploit other guys. So at first they don't get much respect because there are far better players that win who never get picked.

Liv Boeree is an excellent player but there are tons of male players that are better that aren't sponsored. What defines "better" anyway?

Who knows what these sites use to determine who gets picked. Some internal marketing practices that are obv dead wrong anyway because half the team is unknown to most players. Of course that aspect will always be a problem because it's harder to gain popularity being exclusively an online player unless you play in the highest cash games on FTP.

The top 10 players will almost always be guys and the top three players will be guys. That's just the way it is. So it's not precisely an even playing field.

uhm, there was

Big blind

Name one

I'm not some super math guy, I'm fairly terrible at math fwiw, but this is just a really simple decision. It making sense to split only works if you know the person will also split, and if you know that, then steal because you get double. I wasn't talking about NVG being mad about female poker players, I'm talking about females in general. There's a creepy sort of vibe whenever a female is brought up around here that it's impossible to look at her like a human. Either a sex object or a ungrateful bitch deserving of the worst things. In her position I'd do the same thing.

OWNED

Why don't you use your brain and actually think about it. This whole line of questioning is very predictable. You want justification for being the way you are. I'm no saint I play poker all the time and I don't feel bad when I win. I think there is a pretty big distinction between poker and that situation. In poker everyone knows the goal is to win.

In that game everyone knows the goal is to win also with the distinction being that if the players cooperate they are assured of winning. If you know the other person is going to steal you have to tell them that because if they steal there is no way for you to win. The only way to assure a win against an aggressive person or dishonest person is to pick split but to actually gain the other persons trust.

Wait? Why would anyone ever take split?

^^^ This is wrong, if you thought in your mind you had convided them to split then why would you not steal, its a no brainer so to speak..... can i get a lol

I'll tell you why that is. It's because women tend to be illogical and over emotional and when faced with conflict they don't face that conflict. Maybe if more women acted human then men would talk of them as human. Until that point the majority of women to the majority of guys are generally thought of as sex objects.

Let's be honest most guys just want to have sex with lots of women and not have it be super complicated.

This whole "creepy vibe" thing is total garbage. The women that deserve respect, like Liv Boeree, will get and the rest won't. End of story. There are also many levels of respect. If you're dating a girl that can't be straight forward and honest from the door you'll know very soon. That's the type of relationship you should run from.

There's nothing creepy about wanting to have sex with women. That's our JOB as men. This whole "creepy" thing is something that was invented by weak dudes who are trying to angle shoot on women. Now any overt behavior to actually try to have sex with a woman is now creepy. So now guys are stuck in some dumb maze of bs behavior so that we don't treat women like objects.

Trust me the guys who have sex the most are the dudes who actually try to have sex. That's how it will always be. All that stuff about wanting an emotional connection is true but the truth is that if you're trying to establish an emotional connection and actually just want to have sex you're going about it in the wrong way. The girl you spend two hours talking to in a bar might go to a club after talking with you and go home with a guy who talked with her for five minutes.

Just like poker the top 10 percent of the dudes win the most. Be honest and you win the game. The further you are from being honest and the less creepy you are the less likely you are to succeed. You can't make a sale if you never close. It's really as simple as that.

yeah nash in prisoners dilemma is steal,steal but obv mutually best result is split,split which is why it's a dilemma and been discussed ad nauseum by game theorists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

Well because it's not just a game and sometimes the plus EV decision is really a minus EV decision. It's not just a game there are people involved. If you can make a move in the game that protects your reputation it should be considered to make that play. Who knows if one day you'll be famous and this could come back to haunt you.

Life EV. Mine is low after this thread obv.

cos it would feel sucky to choose split when the other steals and some people have empathy

The only way you win is to get the other person to split. That is why only pimps and young girls can win. Men are harder to trust in society so for a man to win in the game, he has to hire a girl/wife/gf to go and the show and be charming and sweet so the other person(hopefully a middle aged man) picks split.

Look at this vid someone posted earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Uos...eature=related

At the 2:59 mark, you hear her pimp/husband/bf shout 'GO ON LOVE!!!' as he is clearly over the moon because his plan(my theory) worked. Regardless of how she feels after she chose to steal the money, im sure her pimp/husband/bf had the best car ride home being £100k richer.

OMG OWNED LOL

So much pathetic misogyny in this thread. If you were on the show and played against Liv or the girl who stole 50k from that guy, you didn't get manipulated or owned by a bitch or whatever other gender-specific insult you want to throw out there, you got outplayed by someone who is smarter than you.

Everyone who posted insane stuff in this thread, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

They're playing a game, there's only one correct play, and because Liv isn't stupid-- and yes, you have to be stupid to suggest that doing anything other than what she did is remotely worth considering-- she made the right play and won against an idiot.

You guys are the only reason a game show like this exists.

you do understand that the optimal play from understanding of the prionser's dilemma is to 'split' right? im confused... did you just pwn yourself? or is this a level?

but yes liv was smart enough to trick the dude into thinking she was going to split but with him seeming to agree with that idea her new +ev play was to steal

Yea thats what the guy who lost that $100k one is saying to himself:

I didn't pwn myself but I did do a poor job of explanation, read the wiki. There's a section on Friend or Foe at the bottom.

It's true, though, that I failed in recognizing that the nash in PD is suboptimal.

in this game, betray your opponent will quite always be the right choice (prisonners dilemma) even if we have a weak domination of steal over split, and not a strict domination like in prisonners dilemma.
now we can ask ourselves if it is a good choice to commit ourselves to betray by participating in a show liek this.....

Just like 911 as men it's important for us to never forget this. You can say all you want that it's just a game but it will never make it true. Go tell those kids dieing in Africa right now that it's just a game.

You're brainwashed man. They have us fighting on TV against each other for worthless paper and they sit back and record the results. The Falcon becomes the Falconer.

There is a world out there and in this world there are people dieing and suffering right now for what is essentially a game. The reason that this game is evil and her decision is evil is because she's really the one being exploited in that situation. Our desperation for survival is put on display by a television network that can't lose in the situation. Don't you understand that's it's not a freaking game yet?

The politics forum is a few spots down. Your sad commentary may be correct but it's not relevant to this thread as it's largely a criticism of media and their relationship to those in power.

Honestly this reads like it was written by a mentally ill person. I hope in five years I'm not the guy on the forum who called Jared Loughner a schizo.

I'm glad that kids "dieing" in Africa is an important enough issue to get you to post on this message board about Liv Boeree's television appearance. There is a lot of injustice in this world, it's true, but your mind is a jumbled mess that hasn't made sense of it all. I'm sure you've had a difficult day volunteering for any number of charitable organizations, so I will excuse the confusion.