The tablet computer industry is expanding. Mobile phone industry is massive and probably still expanding as countries develop. Green tech industry is also expanding. Finance industry worldwide is kind of holding steady as the world recovers from the global financial crisis with a lot of countries still in bad shape.

How about poker?

- Consumer/player base is NOT expanding as a lot of people would like to believe.
- Major companies in this industry either in legal trouble or have been banned from the biggest market(U.S.) or forced to segregate(pokerstars.fr etc).
- Market conditions getting tougher for businesses to operate through litigation, regulation, criminal investigation, etc.
- Consumers finding worse and worse deals as businesses come under pressure from variety of reasons above and monopolies starting to emerge
- Financing for new business very difficult/next to impossible as investors shy away from industry in complete disarray, and for existing business difficult as well
- Absolutely no consumer protection, no effective industry union that is capable of protecting both consumers and business employees
- The game is still getting tougher everyday
- You wouldn't race cars if you knew manufacturers/drivers collude, you wouldn't watch football if you knew results were fixed, and yet we are playing this game where cheating scandals are uncovered on a weekly basis these days

Objectively speaking, this is an industry bad to be in, for you either as an investor, entrepreneur, worker, or consumer.

I think one effect of Black Friday is forcing people to objectively look at the the industry as a whole, and longterm wise this really is probably the last industry on earth one should devote their life commitment towards... unfortunately.

ok mr glasshalfempty

As long as you focus solely on the negatives in the US, ignore pending legislation, and don't read the news about large investment by major players moving into the space, I find this analysis spot on. If you were to look at the world market, especially Asia, even without US legislation we could see growth. If you were to look at the next 3-5 years, I suspect that poker is a much better industry than green tech. Most of that market exists because governments spent billions to create it. Completely ignoring politics, most governments aren't looking to continue putting money on places like this. Considering politics, the outlook is worse.

Yeah people keep finding out how easy it is to get cheated. When money is involved there will always be cheating

If you name all the negatives you've got to look at the positives as well e.g

How many million people play online poker despite all the downsides you mention?
How many more would play if the game was 'cleaned' up?
Pokerstars shows how much money can be made by a good business in the industry

imo the poker industry has great potential, it's just going through rocky times as it grows

But the thing is, businesses/people with money to sink into new ventures can choose any industry they want to get into as long as it's profitable for them, and when they look at poker it's just a ton of roadblocks in terms of hostile governments worldwide and major financial institutions that are afraid to touch poker. Biggest players in the game like Ivey etc etc all in hiding, some of the biggest names in the industry also in hiding or pending arrest etc etc.

I don't even know if I can think of another industry that is as big if not much bigger than poker where you basically cannot find ONE government anywhere or any major media outlet(not something like Subject:Poker or Bluff Magazine but I'm talking about CNN/NY Times/etc) that is friendly to the industry. Generally speaking the media will portray poker badly, and all governments hate poker, the people who run poker, and the people who play poker.

It's depressing to us as players, but it's the reality.

cya more fish for me.

btw, don't be coming back if things get better. **** quiters

By 'all' governments you mean the US government!

It's hard to come up with...
Even ONE positive development...
That would grow poker as a mainstream "sport"...
Since I started coming here in 2005.

And 2+2 is at the epicenter of this problem...
Anyone trying to view poker objectively here...
To view it from the POV of Rec Player...
Or analyze it like any other high-tech business...
Is considered a troll here.

Basically, if it's not shady... it's not "poker".

nice analysis of the online poker market
- Absolutely no consumer protection, no effective industry union that is capable of protecting both consumers and business employees
that is the major issue for poker growth (and pls don't mention PPA)

but.......



where are those millions of ppl who play online poker?
when will nvgtards will stop throwing stupid numbers?

Don't forget Iran and N Korea (though probably legal in Iran now).

OP from US view obv.

Im convinced....is that what you wanted to hear?

OP is the worst business consultant ever. He listed a ton of bullet points but somehow failed to mention the biggest single factor which is the pending legalization of online poker in the US. Of course, that would have been detrimental to his other points, so I have to assume that OP is simply trolling. There's a reason that everyone and their dog is trying to get into online poker right now.

This guy is absolutely right. All these companies partnering up with online gaming websites, like MGM recently partnering with PartyPoker, have no idea what they are talking about. They have clearly done very little research on the industry for them to think that online poker is a profitable venture to get into. And just blindly throwing their money to politicians in hope of some sort of legislation? What idiots! If only they would have contacted OP for expert industry analysis then they wouldn't have gotten themselves into such an unprofitable situation.

Every man and his dog is trying to get into online poker, and yet you live in Forth Worth TX where you can neither play online or play live.... see the irony?? Also of course the irony of being called trolling by "Tom Dwans Son".

The moment you guys started refering to poker as an industry I knew the boom is over and won't be comming back.
I think OP forgot to mention the HUD's.

Because he lives there doesnt mean that he isnt trying to get into online poker. whats wierd is trying to prove poker a bad industry on a poker forum during a time that poker cant be booming at full speed!

Stop kicking it, its already down

Good point, I'm just as frustrated as anyone.. basically until Full Tilt is announcing repayment or that Howard Lederer is in custody I dont want to read another piece of news concerning the company because it just frustrates me.

How do all governments hate poker? Do you not see that in the US the gov doesnt give a **** about poker, its just a few big casino companies who have paid off the right people to have a monopoly on online poker there.

Here in the UK, the gov loves it and we dont even get taxed a penny.

like i can assess ****

Worldwide i still think there is tremendous opportunity for growth but if you talk about the US market at the moment i would agree with most of what you said. We all just had Millions sucked out of the poker economy by full tilt and unfortunately most of it from the Bottom which is whats really crucial for the poker economy. However I think there are several things that could turn this ship around to the games actually getting better for the first time in forever.

One of the things i was going to make a post about was purposing a small tax to the grinders that are consistently making good money every month. Say like 1% of profit per month if you earn over $1000, ($10 capped at $100) Would be unnoticeable for most players out there. This money would then be fed back into the bottom through bonuses and promotions on stars for example and i think it would not only make us more money long term but would help the poker world grow over the next 10 years. I know this is also the site's responsibility but i feel like they can only do so much before it becomes bad business for them. I think that keeping the fish with money for longer will increase there chance to play more, redeposit and also potentially draw new players to the site.

Also when this thing gets legalized in the US and poker becomes a more respected thing to play by the general public i think we will see growth in the game. There is going to be a ton of fresh money put into the online world and i personally see things getting better for quite sometime if that does happen.

Lastly Bots are a HUGE problem if they continue on the rate they are progressing today. This will dry up the games if we don't actively try to fix this problem

You want to compare poker to the tablet/phone industries? Nearly everybody has a use for those products and are showing that they will buy them if they have the means. Green tech? Meh, I supposed you picked it bec it's 'the future' but ppl will have a need for that to when it becomes cost effective. Poker for the vast majority is a past time, a non-essential hobby.

But poker is still a profitable business. I think you're just 'down' bec of the way things have gone for online lately but that should be changing. Of more concern to you should be the bot threat according to what I've read in that thread.


From the POV of a player maybe but I'd sure like to own a poker room.

Are we talking about poker in general or ftp, poker has been around to long and has had its big boom not so long ago! It aint dying just because of bf, the boom maybe over but not poker.

I cant wait for the comeback....minus howard of course!

Generalising about a series of competitors in an industry which are based in different countries, have different regulatory environments, and very little in common, seems like a bad way to draw any conclusions, imo.

fixed that there for you