Leon Tsoukernik subpoenad - stiffed Aussie Matt and Elton Tsang for millions - Page 19 - Poker News

To all the people who are saying he got drunk hes a big boy oh well...

So it's okay to get someone drunk and take advantage of them and take their money...

But it's not okay to get someone drunk and take advantage of them and have sex?

Explain

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11-11-2017 , 06:34 PM

#452

SageDonkey

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorEd

(Neither is moral, the former is sort of accepted/acceptable or at least not breaking the law within the confines of most licensed gambling establishments.)

If this is a serious question and you're not trolling....

Because one is only a possession and the other is a core part of your very being.

Loss of money through exploitation or deception of any sort is possible to repair, recover from or forget, whereas loss of one's free will of physical intimacy can never be repaired nor forgotten.

Last edited by SageDonkey; 11-11-2017 at 06:41 PM.

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11-11-2017 , 07:39 PM

#453

madlex

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SageDonkey

(Neither is moral, the former is sort of accepted/acceptable or at least not breaking the law within the confines of most licensed gambling establishments.)

The former is breaking the law, at least in Nevada where the Aria is located.

Law bars Nevada casinos from serving alcohol to visibly drunk players or allowing them to gamble. People have sued casinos over that in the past.

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11-11-2017 , 08:01 PM

#454

SageDonkey

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Maybe Leon has a solid case in that respect then. Is it a law that is genuinely observed though by casinos, and has it historically been policed and prosecuted.

Or is it the gaming commission and casino operators merely paying lip service to a law that on paper gives weight to gambling in casinos being closely controlled and proper customer care procedures being in place, when perhaps that is not the reality.

Has any casino ever been prosecuted and lost on this matter?

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11-11-2017 , 08:09 PM

#455

PTLou

JellyBean

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,516

not exactly the bastion of journalistic integrity in Fox news. but this discusses key issues

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11-11-2017 , 08:21 PM

#456

SageDonkey

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTLou

not exactly the bastion of journalistic integrity in Fox news. but this discusses key issues

Top detective work, Sir, and here is a bit of my own.

It appears as if the case might not even be heard or is extremely tangled and delayed because of a counter case by the casino alleging that the cheques he used to get the $500K to play with were bad.

http://news3lv.com/news/local/gamble...ey-in-the-bank

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11-11-2017 , 10:40 PM

#457

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

I'm not sure that I follow the arguments that people are making in here but it seems people are saying Matt Kirk is less deserving or doesn't deserve payment since he was partially or totally staked, but I don't see how that is relevant. Why is it not okay to scam a guy but is okay to scam a bunch of people?

Is it possible that the lawyers are working on some sort of plan in which they get paid if and when Kirk wins the case/settles? That would explain how he's able to afford them.

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11-12-2017 , 12:05 AM

#458

coordi

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The counterclaim by Leon is dumb. I am not sure why people would think its Juicy. Casino's likely get suits like this many times a year, sans the stakes and staking allegations (which mean nothing).

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11-12-2017 , 01:12 AM

#459

golfbum983

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,943

Out of all his claims which none I believe, the most ridiculous is Matt Kirk being stakes by Aria for millions.....anyone who has watched him play high stakes would agree...and also think it’s quite well known he usually has 100% or himself.

The story kind of lost me when Leon agrees to pay Kirk in full but Kirk then says no I’ll sue u and waste Millons and top lawyers to try and get my money instead?? Whaaaaaat??!?! Lol

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11-12-2017 , 02:55 AM

#460

GentlemanJack

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfbum983

I call BS on this. Most pros don't have 100% of themselves and the list of the ones that do would in no way include Kirk. Have you seen the way he plays? He would have to have a roll the size of the Empire State Building to handle his swings.

Besides, if you watch some of the high roller bowl coverage, the table talk makes it clear that he's staked by some of the players at that table. Watch the hand where he flips in the dark with Antonio and then tell me he's not staked by JRB.

You show proof that Kirk has 100% of himself and I'll buy you a beer next time you're in Vegas.

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11-12-2017 , 03:18 AM

#461

golfbum983

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,943

Well I don’t have actual proof or know him personally but had Read he didn’t need backing, then today galfond tweeted also that he most likeley had 100% of himself I’m pretty sure he has a better idea then u or I...

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11-12-2017 , 05:16 AM

#462

PTLou

JellyBean

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,516

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentlemanJack

You show proof that Kirk has 100% of himself and I'll buy you a beer next time you're in Vegas.

https://lasvegassun.com/vegasdeluxe/2014/mar/12/las-vegas-tenaya-creek-brewery-lays-claim-most-exp/

.

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11-12-2017 , 10:53 AM

#463

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,635

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentlemanJack

I wrote it itt mulitple times already, but I can do it again: Kirk is not a poker pro, why on earth would you think that?

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11-12-2017 , 11:00 AM

#464

GentlemanJack

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutejszy

I wrote it itt mulitple times already, but I can do it again: Kirk is not a poker pro, why on earth would you think that?

What is your problem? Do you want some kind of medal for saying he's not a pro???

Amateur or pro makes no difference on whether he's staked or not. Get over yourself.

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11-12-2017 , 11:59 AM

#465

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,635

your entire point is based on him being a poker pro. Poker pros get staked, amateurs do not, neither do they care about bankroll management. Although, in this case it is not impossible that he sold some action, simply because Leon is so bad, so some pros may have seen some value.

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11-12-2017 , 12:38 PM

#466

MrFabulous

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 528

Does it matter if Matt was staked or not?

Leon is also staking the Germans for Super High Rollers, doesn´t he?

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11-12-2017 , 01:37 PM

#467

restorativejustice

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,753

^^^^
Only matters if it was the casino in which they were playing and that allowed/encouraged him to be over-served while intoxicated that was staking him (which is why he alleged it).

Staking in and of itself by Leon or anyone else is, in isolation, irrelevant.

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11-12-2017 , 03:54 PM

#468

Codecci

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentlemanJack

What is your problem? Do you want some kind of medal for saying he's not a pro???

Amateur or pro makes no difference on whether he's staked or not. Get over yourself.

lol wat

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11-12-2017 , 04:00 PM

#469

GentlemanJack

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codecci

lol wat

Try and keep up, son.

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11-12-2017 , 06:31 PM

#470

OurSurveySays

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 5,486

Anybody who knows Rob knows hes a man of his word. He's about as fair and trustworthy as you can find in the poker community. He posted here a blog about what exactly happened with Loose Leon and Aussie Matt

http://robyongsblog.com/2017/11/12/w...-in-vegas-not/ …

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11-12-2017 , 06:41 PM

#471

Gzesh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SageDonkey

I've represented a gambler who raised this as a defense to a civil claim and successfully and substantially reduced the Nevada casino's claims prior to a settlement. (The video was pretty bad for the casino in that incident.)

Last edited by Gzesh; 11-12-2017 at 06:49 PM.

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11-12-2017 , 06:54 PM

#472

Nocturnity

NVG Prognosticator

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 417

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurSurveySays

Wow, thank you for posting this.

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11-12-2017 , 06:57 PM

#473

Gzesh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hedgecock

Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough in my article - there were 3 large court documents to sift through and 'translate' into something readable!

According to the filing, Tsoukernik told Yong he would pay Kirk in full, but Kirk approached Yong with an offer...'Yong told Tsoukernik that Kirk has proposed a discounted settlement' is the wording in the court document.

Anyway, if found to be true, it's a huge shift away from Tsoukernik being the person at fault here.

Btw, the court filing in the Clark County Court, Nevada is Case number: A - 17 - 756376 -C if anyone wants to check out the legal dealings from first to last, including Tsoukernik's latest filings. I did notice there might be website problems today though...

post links to the recent docs and I'll take a look ....

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11-12-2017 , 07:02 PM

#474

SageDonkey

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gzesh

I represented a gambler who raised this as a defense and successfully and substantially reduced the casino's claims prior to a settlement. The video was pretty bad for the casino in that incident.

Interesting. It's nice to know the law is real and enforceable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurSurveySays

Rob Yong's blog, on the balance of probabilities is likely to be an impartial account of events. IMO both parties should go back to the negotiating table and settle out of court as the situation is "six of one and half a dozen of the other" and my view is that a court may well throw them both out and tell them to stop wasting the court's time.

Clearly they should both also not put themselves in a similar position again for such circumstances to arise.

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11-12-2017 , 07:05 PM

#475

Gzesh

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 7,675

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurSurveySays

Read the blog post ... Robcertainly sounds like a credible, stand-up guy

Some of what he said, although hearsay, would not be favorable to the plaintiff if it got into evidence under an exception.

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