Wondering about other peoples experiences.

at which buyin amount?

Are you good enough to beat the other players in your chosen field at a rate higher than the rake? If so, Yes. If not, No.

There is a guy in the LV forum that plans on playing just these at the lower limits. He is a local and seems pretty confident that he can crush these for I believe he says a 30% roi.

Yes they can be profitable, but it's probably not that great a use of time if you are any good at cash games.

LOL at ROI figures unless he plans to get in a few thousand of them somehow.

Seemed a bit ambitious to me also. If I remember correctly he did say something like he planed on playing 10 hours a day 6 days a week- for as many sng's that he could get in saying he would average about 55min-1 hour playing time in each SNG

To win (or at least chop) these, the playing time is 1.5-2.0 hours. Still, they are profitable, especially with last longer bets people push for. However, agreed with above, cash games are a much better use of time if you for instance solid at both sngs and cash.

forgot to mention that he would partake in last longers too but would not chop

That's silly to not chop. Another possible edge for him is deal making

What type of discount do you typically have to sell lammers at?

Pretty sure chainsaw gets an erection over any vig higher than 0.5% on lammers.

The majority of players at the lower stakes have no idea what proper strategy looks like for a SNG. They're calling 3x raises with J-9o OOP. They are beatable but the rake is so high it's debatable if it's worth it.

I never sold a lammer for less than face value.

Good luck even getting them to run what you're looking for let alone finally getting everyone to sit and play. Those satellites are the most ****ed up process the wsop runs. Seems to get worse every year even though they improve everything else.

That's what Nick Rainey used to do. He said that showing up early in the morning to play satellites against old men was like stealing money.

This was before he realized that actually stealing money is also like stealing money.

Posts like this are the reason why 2+2 needs a like button

Im pretty sure the rake structure is basically the same in each level so the higher buyins are pretty good value.

As for selling lammers you can always get face but there will always be snakes in the grass trying to get you to give them deal

99% of players won't insist on discount. It's a kind of gentleman's agreement that we don't stitch up fellow players regarding lammers. Chainsaw makes up the majority of the 1%

Satellite players are good for the game. It would be -EV to exchange them for a reg without a fee.

Anyone who charges a fee is scum at the WSOP.
Lammers are only in existence for the benefit of Caesars. Any attempt to piggy back on that should be outed and shamed.

Yes they are profitable for sure.

This I never have a problem getting face value.

Haha! wow..

i disagree firmly w above. the satellites are a cheap way for people who can't afford/wouldn't play an event otherwise to get in.

tl:dr: cliffs=vig on lammer sale is good and not scummy. sell to your friends dont harass people around the rio. if you dont have any friends you should be charged a vig because people have to tolerate you.


1. if you have to ask are they profitable, then they probably aren't for you.

2. if you'd like to gamble a bit at the wsop, and don't find these sit and go profitable but want action on them, you can find many players that will crossbook/take side action on satellites they are playing.

3. I play 20+ of these satellites every year for the last few years

4. there should be a vig on the sale of lammers. rio should discourage the selling of lammers. sure there are instances where u need to sell them (emergency need to leave town, derp i played a satty the night before my flight for fun but now im leaving ect), but they are designed to satellite into the the events, not grind for immediate profit. note mr rio charges 30$ on the 1030 sit and go. this is 1/3 of the normal rake of their tournaments. i believe on the smallest tournament they charge 9ish% but the buy in is very small

people that harass you in line while you're waiting to buy in are annoying and should be charged the largest vig possible for tolerating their presence.

5. a vig on the sale of lammers would make the satellites softer because the margin would be smaller, which would mean more players actually enter the events (and those entering would be of the softer variety event though they won the satellite)

also hats off to SrslySirius

Wrong, Lammers exist soley for the benefit of players! Consider the $550 Megas to the Main Event. The winners are paid in Lammers. If you weren't paid in Lammers, you would get a W-2G for the net winnings of $9,450. Winning a satellite is non-taxable because it is paid in LAMMERS, not CASH.

Most players, once they've verified the color/shape of the Lammers that are in use for the series will pay face value. WSOP changes the color of the $500 Lammer each year, so if I just arrived at WSOP I wouldn't buy Lammers from someone until being there awhile and knowing for sure what that years Lammers colors are, etc. Pretty sure Lammers value is worthless at the end of the series, they're not like casino chips which would be valid for years.