Wait, nobody is talking about that in this "Skype secret group" is at least one scammer? ...

Both G and R have been scammed into sending money under false pretences. Surely they each have a claim for return of their cash? G has a claim against R and R has a claim against the scammer.

So, unless they agreed to some special terms and conditions in this private group, R owes G £20k and it is up to him, not R, to chase the scammer.

Imagine this were not a poker trade but, for example, an eBay purchase. G would get his money back and R would have to chase down his goods.

Did X send to Y and tell Y to send to Z..and Z was not who X thought he was??

I don't see how the onus is just on Grazvis. It seems like a fair policy that both sides have a responsibility to do their due diligence, ie. James clicking on Graz's post in the skype chat to make sure he's talking to the same person.

Guys let's just try to appreciate that James actually gave some time out of his life to post here.
The guy is working on numerous projects and it's obvious that the amount of money that got lost on this trade is barely worth a reply from him.
After all it's not that he sent the money to the wrong address nor that he did exactly what he accused OP of not doing (video calling , clicking on original OP's post on skype).

On a serious note it is very obvious to me that they should AT LEAST split the loss...

This quote is to confirm that it's indeed real James talking, as I messaged a link to this thread in the group chat, and in PM to James, and James have responded this to me in PM on Skype, I took screen shots.

And to clarify, one of the main reasons why I started this thread, is because I didn't like how it was treated after this have happened, I was trying to figure out what have happened in the main chat, where there wasn't many responses trying to reason, or explain what have happened. And my PM chat with James Romero was very short, probably ~3 short conversations, where firstly he just messaged to ask the ID of the scammer's Skype account, then we tried to get his ACR account unlocked, and 3rd message me informing him that I don't necessary agree with what was said in the Trading thread, but his response was so out of norm, where there's no more reasonable conversation can be had after that.

I did send to a random account without doing any diligence yes. I just don't think anyone provided me with good reasonings in that chat, and I thought James Romero's character should be judged too.

That response is pretty incredible , you should just get 3/5 people from the group chat to come to a decision ( since they know how trades usually work within the group ) so it can be over .

he should have no problem agreeing with this .

I think I have been in this Skype trading chat group for a few years. I don't remember who have added me there, a friend or one of the "Trustworthy Brokers". But to best of my recollection I was never informed any rules, I am sure about this 100%. Furthermore I don't remember one case where any dispute was discussed in that thread. But I have that chat muted for the most part when I am not trading.

Op, sorry to hear about you being taken advantage of. You and others can easily avoid these types of situations by using banks and wire transfers initiated by bankers. Even in time of Covid banks are making appointments for in person interactions.

Anytime thieves see people using outside sources to move money, they will be targeting those people.

Best of luck going forward with your financial transactions.

Hypocritical statement (assuming your narrative is correct), right?

NAT8 doesn't take bank wire as far as I know. Plus moving from Pokersite to Pokersite seems convenient.

This is only my personal opinion:

After reading through everything, my guess is that the imposter James "Hollywood Five Full Time Jobs" Romero was either James himself or an accomplice.

I've actually seen this exact scam done both ways that I've mentioned above (with non poker-related tradable digital assets).

Again, this is just my opinion.

In my view James Romero is 50% responsible. Any verification this is the real James Romero? His post reads like someone trying to make James look like a complete buffoon.

The "head of security at ACR" has nothing to do with how right or wrong you are in the situation, and your roleplaying as the world's busiest man isn't indicative of you not being half responsible for the trade. You sent funds to the wrong person whether you initiated the trade or not.

The guy who got scammed said that Romero confirmed that it was him on Skype.

Romero seems like he knows the ins and outs of being a "professional trader" (I'm saying that because Romero used the term "recreational trader" in his distancing post here).

If he's such a trading god, how did he also get conned so easily??? Smells fishy.

Is this Skype group private? Who is in charge of vetting people who want to get in? Does that person hold some responsibility for letting two fake names in?

Neither of the fake accounts were in the group. The groups have been working for a long time without the oversight of NVG as long as proper due diligence is done its safe. This scam is nothing new and has been happening for a long time in the transfer threads here on 2+2.

Grazvydas has been quick to quote and reply to posts that agree with his stance while completely ignoring all others. If the roles were reversed and Grazvydas organised a trade and received first then sent BTC to the person who he had conversed with do you think he would of made this thread or been eager to send the 20k back?

This is my question too....

Are you part of the group? Your saying it’s not a private Skype group? The account were not added?

Its private, the 2 real accounts were in there and the 2 fake accounts which is just one person wasn't even though he was getting information to coordinate the scam somehow. The group has been closed down as its clear the scammer somehow had access to what was being said.

what he said.

that was my read too but romero is soooo busy, can't blame him for not doing his due diligence.

They aren't in the group.
Someone in the group is making these accounts or passing along info about trades.

When you have a group with 600 poker players, even if they are all added based on a known person's recommendation, it's nearly impossible to figure out who the scammer is.

It's why the person sending first is responsible for video calling, or confirming the identity of who they are trading with another way.

It's not just in this group. There is sophisticated scammers specifically targeting the poker community.

There's a lot of money moving around/people are not as careful as they should be, so we've made ourselves a target.


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It's one thing most analysis is missing. The skype name Grav was speaking with is REALLY suspicious, (It's a randomly generated live:XXXX account) and he didn't bother to check if it was even in the group before sending first.

This is a pretty simple legal analysis. This is not legal advice and no attorney client relationship is being made by posting this. There are two ways to view this, both with Romero owing the 20k.

1) A deal was made between real Romero and real gravitas, but through the intermediaries. They both had the intent to trade with the real version of each other, although orchestrated through the scammer, and then went through with trying to do so. If so, a contract was made. Grazvyd performed by sending 20k to Romero's real ACR account. Romero FAILED to perform under the contract bc he sent to the scammer. Romero therefore must perform his end of contract and owes Grazvyd 20k.
Or the other option:

2) Because they never spoke directly to each other, a contract was never made. If so, then the 20k Grazvyd sent Romero was an erroneous transfer. Romero owes him the money back because it was an accidental transfer. This is just like if a bank accidentally puts money in someone's account. You cant spend it, you owe it back to the bank when you realized what happened. In fact, spending that money is larceny and people get charged for that criminally (good that story, its real).

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE: but those are the two possible ways a court in the USA would see it. If it had jurisdiction.

Romero cannot claim 1) he gets the 20k because "a deal was made" because if so, then he still owes the 20k under the deal. Alternatively, if his position is that a deal was never made bc he never actually talked to real grazvyd, then it was an accidental transfer and he owes the 20k back.

did he end up showing proof of the BTC transfer?

as someone who doesn't know James at all i just find it curious

1. James is offering Luxon for BTC, yet transfers 20k$ BTC later on for 20k ACR? or was there some additional % offered?
2. James being 'experienced trader' sends 20k$ BTC without even checking if the Skype acc he is talking to is in that group even though he surely knows BTC transfer should be taken with extra care
3. James doesn't show proof of the transfer according to Grazvis post from yesterday (i hope he did by now, because if he didn't that raises some questions)

I can understand someone being trustworthy or reputable, but if i was in Grazvis shoes, even if i 100% trusted the guy i would still want to see the proof of transfer as it literally takes seconds out of James busy life to do it yet clears any concerns like 'what if James realised there is a scam going on and didn't send the 20k$ at all'

When you're sending first you need to check everything to protect yourself. I always check does skype name I'm talking match with skype name in group, also you can always ask for person who is giving HV to tag person he is vouching for. Then you can just click on tag and open chat with that person and check were you talking with him.

real James doesn't need to do the checking since he can't be scammed when he is receiving first, but it would be much better if he was paying more attention to skype name he was talking with.

EDIT: most of people thinking that it's James fault don't know how trading in skype group works.

someone ask you for a trade, you ask your friend to hard vouch for you, other side see someone HV for you and sends you money, after you receive money you send to the other side.
So it's totally understandable that real James was not double checking anything since he can't get scammed( already received money).

And when you need to send first other side receive HV in group, but before sending especially btc you need to check is hv for same guy you're talking with, which he unfortunately didn't check.