Excellent point.

As such it means that no deal can take place without all player funds being available at the time of any reopening.

If the original balances arent available for withdrawal then any new players winning that unavailable to withdraw money will not be able to take it out either. Seems a very logical deduction to make.

Hence all proposals for a deal that involves player funds not being completely available for withdrawal is by definition doomed to failure in real practical terms.

(Isnt this what casued the problem in the first place? Playing with and for phantom money that couldnt be withdrawn?)

I was going to sign up/deposit $600 at Full Tilt literally the day before Black Friday but ended up being busy. The point above about if 100% of player deposits are not available I am ploaying for money that doesn't exist greatly concerns me and would prevent me signing up.

If the current owners stood to profit from the new FT I also would not sign up.

The different options mentioned in the telephone calls clearly seem to be a good deal for people with balances on FT - someone posted 'we all need to compromise in this situation' - I just don't see the current owners compromising too much.

If we accept that Tapie is vetted to have the necessary funds to repay all players than it could be a rather smart business plan to minimize the cash needed for restarting FTP and cashouts. Tapie/GBT would guarantee that the money is available but the actual cash infusion could be significantly less than 300 million.

Shameless self-quote from the thread about spanish FTP players being contacted by phone:

This isn't quite true. I don't love the idea of re-opening without immediately paying out all players in full but if done correctly it would not mean people were playing for "phantom money." If you look at the questions European players were just asked by the people who phoned them up, they presented 3 possible options:

1. Balance converted to equity in new FTP.
2. Balance immediately available at reduced rate.
3. Balance converted into something like an annuity. Paid out in full according to some schedule, not immediately. Presumably not available to gamble with once converted to scheduled payments.

In none of these cases are people playing with phantom money. Instead, some of their current liabilities are reduced or put off until the future, allowing any freshly deposited money or money otherwise "in play" to be fully backed by cash at the bank. If FTP reopened and said "Ok guys, you can play with your 6 figure balances but you're limited to 5k/week in cashouts." then people would be playing with phantom money. No one seems to be seriously considering doing that.

+1 But more than this, I cannot see Facebook, a US public company doing any deals with FTP or PS until their issues are fully resolved and way in the past. Party Poker maybe, because they have a clean rep, zero chance they would associate with FTP2 or PS (at this point), especially if any of the old owners were still apart of FTP2 (even non voting).......they might say nice things to FTP mgt, but zero chance that deal is going to happen now....IMHO.

Not really.....

Item 1 - is a straight debt to equity conversion.
Item 2 - is a buy out at a discount (might be large - we don't know)
Item 3 - is an unsecured bond (all you gain here is some optionality that you might be paid something - which is better then the current situation, I agree)...

Hypothetically: In item 1 - you can expect a crap deal (bottom line, you will only get a buyback if and when they have the money to pay it - common sense)....in item 2, you can expect a big discount (otherwise, what's the point, so figure, maybe 50%) and in item 3, if the site doesn't work, you might not get paid (you give him all the optionality, as he gets to collect revenue and pays you when he wants - ignore the agreement he offers, you will have no way to enforce it if he has issues and cannot make the payments on time).....

Item 3 is really phantom money....they want the option to pay out of profits (and if something goes wrong, they wont pay, you can bet on that) - while item 3 sounds like a good deal, you are better off taking the discount or taking the equity, the 'bond' gives them all the upside and you all the downside....Item 2 is probably the best deal, but this isn't what FTP promised and so the owners will have to remember that, as will the players....FTP said all deals were about repaying the players....paying X% on the dollar is not repaying the players....none of the options listed qualifies as paying the players (paying over time is also a discount to cash) ....these options are basically putting a gun to peoples head and saying, 'if you don't do this, you get nothing, so take your pick.' Not a great way to start a relationship with your new clients...IMHO...still optionality in life is valuable...so if he offers one of these things of course people will take him up....they will have no other option...but he shouldn't expect a lot of loyalty either...

Frankly I cannot see the Class Action's agreeing to these terms (unless of course, FTP pays the US players in full somehow)....they have a big case against FTP, so if FTP2 does go back into business and offers these terms, I cannot see the Class Actions agreeing to back out (there case gets better as now FTP2 will be solvent)....as I said....none of these deals qualifies as 'paying the players' IMHO....so lets hope this isn't the plan...but if it is....we all know people will agree....but I would wager the sites legal issues outside of the DOJ will persist.

Mods,please do something about this!!!Please give temporary bans to anybody talking about facebook.

Why? The cat is already out of the bag. Besides, the former FTP employee who first posted about this project and later asked for the thread to be deleted has made an identical post on another poker forum...

I didn't say I like any of these options. I would VASTLY prefer to receive my money, in full, immediately.

What HDemet and others have said, that I'm taking issue with, is that if FTP does not pay out in full immediately and then reopens then players would be playing with "phantom money." There are plenty of ways, including the ones I listed, that FTP could fail to meet all of their current obligations immediately and in full but still guarantee that they can cover all of the money that is "in play" on their site going forward.

Pretty sweet deal for Tapie if he can get it. He acquires a large player base with developed and tested software without most of the liability or cost of obtaining such. If it doesn't work out he files bankruptcy and walks away if it does work he makes a ton of money and is viewed as a hero.

Actually, no we don't. Just let them get on with it.

Yeah, sadly, I agree....I wonder how the AGCC would handle this situation....their rules really are not set up for this...basically, its an ongoing company renegotiating with its players....the way I read the rules this isn't allowed...


Mate, I guess that means you get a ban to! Look, the horse has left the barn....if I remember reading it, he didn't even bring it up someone else brought it up to him....it's already out there now, it's public domain...and FTP2 is dreaming if they think FB would make a deal with this company now....zero chance, IMHO, even with new management....at least an exclusive deal that wouldn't allow others to do the same thing anyway...IMHO...why would FB want to be involved with a company with FTPs issues?

FTP was about the pros who played there....what poker player doesn't think that the vast majority of the major ones are not tainted by this, with only a few exceptions....FB doesn't need that publicity...IMHO

Cheers,

BTW - If he forces Option 3 and Option 1 on everyone....they he basically buys the site for 'low money down' and if he gets the DOJ to kick in some money to pay Players...wow...he gets to take over the site and use most of his invested funds to get the site back up and running.....now that would be a sweet deal...instead of maybe $300M, its $30M down and then he does an equity raise in Q1 once the site is running again from a venture firm to pay players out....sweet deal....but I wouldn't bet on a lot of player loyalty from this deal...IMHO.

There's only definitvi

FB would sell your DNA if they could.

FB would take FTP in a second as long as they don't have to pay the development costs and get a cut on the rake.

How billionares stay billionares.

chris is currently trying to make a mint, selling signed cards on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHRIS-JESUS-...item25629f013c

so if he maybe also decides to sell his ****ing hat and his sunglasses he will have the 300 000 000 $ needed to repay the players in no time!

ray currently saves the company millions $$$ every day by reducing the amount of lobsters with which he had fattened himself up.

so while pokerplayers are constrained to invest their remaining capital in guns and ammo instead of poker to get prepared for day x, everything seems to go in the right direction.

Facebook apps for poker are already in development and being used on FB...while I am sure anything FTP would create would be super slick, FB doesn't need FTP....

http://apps.facebook.com/mindsportfive

I fully agree that these people don't have FTPs database, but the market for free poker is different on FB...but as you can see these people are offering cash prizes paid by sponsorships...and you can bet the US internet/poker guys are on to this to....for example the two partners (ex Expedia) from the Stations deal are smart guys with an internet past, you can bet they have thought of this to as part of their stations agreement.

Anyway....I promise you...if FTP2 comes back and makes an exclusive deal with FB, I will send you $10 on FTP with complements...my second freeroll offer...

This would be FTP's answer to PokerStars Home Games feature, with obviously a lot more exposure.

Info is already out, pal, too late. and BTW what country are you from to want this ban on open discussion to happen anyway? Come on , Man this is NVG !

TAPIE IS A GOD AND WILL DOMINATE THE DOJ

-C

Full tilt doesnt need face book, or any other "kids" version of poker.
Once they are up and running which as we all know will be within the next 3 months,
they will have such a good sign up bonus and promotion that even those of you who want to cash all your funds out and run will think twice about.
Calm down, and stop talking about facebook, its pathetic. Patience is all you need.
Full Tilt will once again be back where it belongs, being one the best poker sites in the world.

Yeah.....no.

Ike, I agree that its not impractical the problem is it will upset a lot of their customer base.

Also, I find it likely they intend for all the money to be "in play" but those with large account balances simply can't cashout all at once. Which means the amount in play will be greater than cash on hand.

The real problem is that I don't think they are looking for a way to avoid injecting capital at the outset. They are looking to avoid injecting much capital at all. The penalty or savings from holding capital back for a year wouldn't net enough of a savings for any serious buyer to do so. Would you rather save 10% or make all your customers happy?

They aren't going to inject the capital and want the profits of the business to pay the players. If the business doesn't go well are we in the same boat we are in now?

I sincerely hope you are Nostradamus on this and not Kevmodes room mate! I hope you turn out to be right for the players BR sake and not just another troll. Good luck to everyone on this

The amount in play can't be greater than the cash on hand or I highly doubt they'll get a license from a reputable authority.

IDK if this is a good or workable plan, but if the really big accounts would go for the share offer, then the huge amount of small accounts might be paid off by the investor, then the problem you state would be moot. However, its a REALLY BIG IF for the guys with big BRs stuck to go for shares. Guess it's not impossible

Which of these is correct?