You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you actually believe what you have written

FTP can be had for a lot less than the mythical numbers that you seem to think Caesars/Harrah's also value it at and Wynn disnissed taking oevr FTP a long time ago and never even seriously considered it.

I'll tell the men in white coats to increase your medication.

With all of these lawsuits popping up all over the place it's like FTP has cancer and it's spreading rapidly. It's really hard to imagine anyone wanting to buy that company for an up front price that would come anywhere close to getting the players paid in full.

As far as the players exchanging their bankrolls for an equity stake in Full Tilt it really doesn't make sense. If their bankrolls are converted over to equity how are they going to have money to play with? Their money is gone because they were never able to cash out. I realize not all poker players are busto as a result of FT stealing all their FT bankrolls (Don't try to freaking argue that it's not theft. When you take something without permission it's freaking theft!) but many are and these players won't be able to play even if they wanted to.


All of this "converting player balances to equity stakes" talk has to be some sort of huge level or ridiculous attempt to buy time.

I guess once it became clear that NOBODY was coming up with $300 million to bail out FTP they had no alternative but to try to sucker the players into some sort of creative alternative solution.

hdemet

Yeah because each of these threads speak volumes for how much FT is worth; they have nothing to do with most of the online community being owed $$ from the site.

There is no way player shares will be valued shares. They will likely be hard to sell and even if the company was sold down the road still probably worth pennies on the dollar. The would not bd preferred shares, would not have any vote, would not pay dividends.

Remember whomever takes over is a third party with no horse in this race, owed players will have no leverage against them at all so any equity offer will be under the most one sided terms possible. You will be eligible. They will want to pawn off all this debt with worthless equity.

The DOJ will never accept this as an option for us players no matter what happens.

Everyone acts like the equity stack is just throwing in good money after bad, but it is an investment, they aren't saying "Players with large balances can not cash out they must take an equity share", they are saying "We would like to help limit our exposure and are willing to offer an equity stake to players with large balances"

So it is an investment, and for the players who may have already written off their balances, the opportunity to buy into Full Tilt the second biggest online poker site doesn't sound like such a bad idea; Especially since the company is going to be managed by Businessmen who specialize in turning businesses around

Look at players like HL and CF, they fronted some money to start full tilt now they are ridiculous rich, only problem is they are poker players and obviously made big mistakes, but their initial decision to invest made them alot of money

It is like you have ignored all reality for the last six months. At this point there is no evidence FTP was ever a profitable business and it is pretty clear it has had a negative value with more liabilities than assets and potential earnings, for several years now.

Mirage , Wynn and no other legitimate business will want anything to do with FTP ever. FTP will never be able to cinduct business in the us in any way shape or form.

Even before the owners stole all the players deposits it is unlikely FTP was worth that much. Right now it is all liabilities and expenses. Nobody is going to put money out there for it besides taking on liability.

At the end of the day the player liability is likely too big of an issue for even the shadiest sale scheme can come up with...

Well,i don't claim to know how much FTP is worth,but I know that when/if they ever go online again they will get ~200000 rake from me in a year.I would surely play there again and so would many others,so they must be worth something,most likely a lot...

Since the only real chance of a winning US player to get his money at this point appears to be for this sale to be completed, I think we need to start believing FTP is worth $300mil.

Would be nice to be able to believe........just too great a leap of faith unfortunately:-(

+1 Thank God someone else said it too. Plus, we get $300M converted - who is going to play on the site! All the money is tied up in the equity! And imagine you agree to convert your $100K in equity and then a deal gets done....later you find that $50M of guys did this, but another $150 refused...to Tapie just gave them cash! Now how would that make you feel holding this worthless stock that has fancy incentives by no voting rights and could be subject to all sorts of tricks like dilution...opps...God, why did I listen to Chris, - oh, sorry, that was a slip...I meant Tapie....Damn...

Hypothetically, here was the though process Tapie probably considered when he entered this deal:

First, Tapie was probably thinking he could get the DOJ to let him process those $130M in echecks that FTP is owed in the US (grand slam if that had happened) - Opps....DOJ said NO cant allow that as that money was used to gamble.

Next he said, ok, just unfreeze BF ($~60M) FTP money and do a remission to the US players on other seizures and I will take care of the ROW. DOK said - sure, but we need to litigate this for a long time among the various parties, so we cant answer this until we win our case of the concede. Ok What if we agree to a $500M fine! paid over 20yrs, $25M per year....and we give you an interest in the IP and all assets until paid. DOJ says, lets think about that...we cannot do the remission now, but maybe we can unfreeze your money. After much talk, they decide to allow an unfreeze, if FTP guarantees to pay back all players globally immediately after closing. Wow, a victory, but he still needs another $230m!

Next, Tapie thought he could get owners to put up some money to pay players and DOJ would drop their lawsuit against those owners - DOJ/Owners said NO (DOJ wants owners to put up a lot more then Owners and everyone said NO to the amount DOJ wants). No, not going to work, DOJ/FTP in deadlock over the money - owners think they will win this...so why give the money up, besides its all safely hidden away now.

Or maybe Tapie thought, players would convert debt for equity, and DOJ said, yeah we heard about that yahoo on 2+2....no interest, forget it.

Oh, then Tapies attorney reminds him about all the civil suits....and Tapie say...no problem, we pay them and they go away...and the lawyer says...'ugh, well, maybe not....there may be damanges out there now...' 'Naw, uoo leet me handol dem!
Lawyers walks away in disgust saying....damn 'the kid doesn't get it, these lawsuits could remain a big problem to resolving a lot of the deals.

Finally, Tapie went back to his father and said Dad, I am having some issues getting it on the cheap, but this is company ripe to steal, its a great company, I have never asked you for anything before, just put the $300M in cash and $100M in operating money and let me run it - I will show you how its done! And Bernard, laughing (like Gorden Gecco before him) replies to his mother....'look at our kid, he owned a sport betting site he sold that latter blew up and now he thinks he can run a global poker company' forget it kid....its a deal with flees...

Of course, I am just poking fun here.....but I will bet you some of this thought process is what drove this deal....and by now the owners are sitting around and wondering if this guy really was ever serious about ponying up $300M if the DOJ ties his hands on all these money saving proposals...I mean, why does he need all these concessions if he has the money and is ready to act? If he wanted to make deals to buy the company, then why not just say that in the first place?

The evidence that Harry is right is all over the place, multiple interviews with Tapie and the Father. If Tapie thinks its 'worth' $300M (which means he thinks its worth $600M, since he needs to get rewarded for the risk) then why does he need all these side deals, just write the check with the funds he showed FTP, made a fair deal, but long term payout with the DOJ, and boom its done....clearly Hdement is right...he doesn't see it being worth that much...he wants to buy it at a discount and get other people to fiancee the transaction. Come on folks...the writing is on the wall....and the owners know it too now...


ps. you say, he needs these deals because he wants to pay as little as possible. If that were true, then it should have been disclosed in the LOI and the purchase agreement, that settling these various issues were a condition of the sale. If its disclosed, then someone knows what I know...if not, then Tapie is just doing it anway....because he can....

I have asked this question before....who is paying the PK employees while all this is going on? Or, now since the AGCC has washed their hands is FTP just using player money any way they want!

lol at the circle jerk in this thread.

IT'S CALLED NEGOTIATING. HOLY. ****. You guys honestly can't be this dumb . . .

Maybe he wants to get the best value he can? Is this something really that complicated and beyond your understanding?

Get life bro @ Ledason.

All of US dont know anything what's going on behind curtains , and will never know i assume... so my 0.02c stop trying to figure out cose noone of us can ever imagine what's behind hole Tapie/Doj/AGCC bla,bla,bla thing ... he's investor his job is to take care of DoJ/Agcc our job is to be more patient and to play there again when it start to work again.

Really. brick and motar casinos looking to get into the online business will want nothing to do with a new ftp with an untapped u.s. market laid beneath them? lol.

concerning player shares:

it's an option to lighten the load. No one has said that it would be a mandatory measure. If the deal goes through, GBT will have to have the full 300 million on hand. No one would be locked into a shares program.

i agree it's stupid. But it would also be optional so it's really a non-issue for those that don't like the idea.

We will see Mate...maybe, but with all his talk in the press about this possibility and that possibly, I haven't heard one statement from him that his goal is to pay CASH to all the players and let them withdrawal that cash when the site opens - how come that option hasn't been mentioned? My hypothetical line on this deal closing and players being paid fully in non-recourse cash in less then 6 months is 2-1. This means hypothetically, if someone believed the deal was a sure thing, they could wage $100 to make $200...Sweat deal!

I find it funny that in the week since this deal has been announced, there have been several posters asking what is the current line on FTP money....now why would anyone want to sell when it appears we are so close to geting our money....Scott says we will have it all by the 14th!

1) Some people believe the shills in this thread desperately trying to drive down the price

2) some want to reduce the variance and even if it was 80/20 in their favor, may not want to risk losing huge sums of money they may depend on to live.

3) Time value of money. If it takes a few months to get our money, one is likely better off taking 60-70% and making that money work in the months that you otherwise would not be able to use it for anything.

Never trust a wolf in sheeps clothings...

Because the deal will look sweet....it will say hey, you get more shares the longer you hold your shares! Your original 10K will be like $40K shares...what a deal...you will make huge money! He will omit the fact that your shares are non-voting and that GBT will have the right to change the terms of the offer (at any time) if the business isn't doing as well as they hoped....or they will have the right to dilute shares to the board (or other owners or management) - which simply means that every share they issue to the company or someone else (that isn't you) makes all your shares worth factionally less, so you might end up getting all your incentives only to find you just got your money back! And then finally and this is based on reports, you would have no market to sell your shares...just at the 'fair market' value the company deems....and trust me, your version and their version, will not be the same when the time comes to sell - which will result in a lawsuit with all their offshore shells - good luck collecting.

These are just some of the tricks of the trade, but there are many others and some very sophisticated....venture guys do these deals all the time, to steal companies from entrepreneurs and put themselves in the drivers seat...

again, optional. if the deal goes through they will have 300 liquid and anyone that wants to cash out can.

Agreed....if its 'optional' but they have ALL the cash to pay on demand (not over time, but ON DEMAND), then I see now issue with it.....just hope everyone has their eyes wide open....because the sharpest agreements sometimes don't even speak to issues the board is allowed to do with shares and since it wasn't spoken to, they can just do it...period...yeah, you can sue, but the board makes the decisions for the company and in the Stock Purchase Agreement the boards powers will be outlined (which you might not get a copy of think to read or even understand its implications) and then in your Horror you will realize that they pretty much can do anything that they deem in in the best interests of the company, even if its not in your best interests.....so this means you have to trust your new partner, because you own a minority stake outside the US in a business run by well known vulture investors....not a seat I would want..

DOJ is very unlikely (read: next to impossible) to let a deal go through without ftp having enough cash to cover all players. Also it would be impossible for ftp to get relicensed by the AGCC, and unlikely anywhere else as well, if again, they did not have the full liquid amount.

Whether the deal goes through or not is a separate issue. But if it does, all this alarmist bull**** about share converting is just more mouth breathing from the nvg peanut gallery.

We completely agree, I am just warning people to be leery of these offers, thats all....I said as much regarding the CASH....they need $300M CASH or this deal isn't happening and apparently they have it because FTP said they verified it, so hopeful soon once they realize the DOJ isn't their financial partner, we all can see it in our checking accounts individually disbursed....the rest is all smoke and mirrors...But I will stick to 2-1 on my hypothetical line (against it happening as a cash deal).