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I think that figure is likely BS

I just think its a figure they were given by FTP to explain away the shortfall of 390M debt vs 60M in cash they had in March.

I dont think the rinky dink AGCC has the power to find out the true figures the DOJ has confiscated.

sorry if this has been discussed recently, but does anyone know how much cents/$ full tilt money is going for right now

I think you will find some of what you are looking for here:

Page 45, Appendix 1 A "GUIDE TO THE FINANCIAL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS
of the EU Transparency Directive and to IAASA’s role under the Directive"

Published by the Irish Auditing & Accounting Supervisory Authority.

Note the section on risk factors, which include relevant financial rations and industry specific issues....

This doesn't specifically cite the aging of accounts receivables (which I am sure of but couldn't find the reference), but does discuss risk based disclosures, which clearly that issue (and a host of others) would fall under, none of which appear in the PK audit.

As I have said, it's Grant Thornton who is more liable then the AGCC IMHO as they audited Pocket Kings, Ltd.

The BOT discussion has been mentioned on these threads before, specifically by a claimed PK employee (who was never identified). My recollection was he stated they just used them to fill tables and they didn't win - have you guys heard anything on this topic from your sources?

Frankly, the use of BOTs in any form cannot be good - I don't see how they couldn't win, unless FTP also manipulated the dealing algorithm (to knowingly deal them bad hands), which would also raise concerns that they had that ability.

Pocket Kings' books weren't the ones that were cooked with respect to counting money seized and uncollected deposits as cash.

$60k per year profit egaming licence (AGCC 2010 accounts). Almost a non profit organisation.

And for the $60k, you wish the AGCC to bear ultimate responsibility for crooked offshore directors falsifying reports and to defend against foreign governments agencies who freeze legally earned company funds.

You do remember FTP's ToS stating that funds were not segregated?

You just seem pissed that AGCC wouldn't break back their figures that you question...don't take this personally as I would never expect any regulator, including NGC to discuss any decision / findings with press after they have issued a statement.

Can we trust 100% of DoJ published statements as fact? Being ROW I am not sure how much trust US place in DoJ (not many went with Ponzi statement, some figures clash with those supplied by AGCC)?

I think he stated that PK employees did what you describe and not bots.

I was under the impression that bots are not good enough to win even against average players. I don't think online poker will last very long if computers get really good at it.

Poll on here suggests AGCC still (marginally) enjoys confidence of the 2+2 community. Presumably none of the haters are voting?

I haven't read through the thread the past 3 days or so other than skimming over investor this investor that, but how much are people willing to pay for full tilt funds right now?

I know that the Pocket Kings audit was posted itt, but since they weren't holding player deposits, it didn't show much. Are the audits of the companies responsible for processing and holding deposits available anywhere, or was it only because they were based in Ireland and subject to Irish disclosure law that PK's financials were made public, not due to any sort of AGCC regulation?

+1

I think it's reasonable to assume that the figures quoted by the AGCC are figures provided by FTP, and as such they should be viewed with suspicion, thus the AGCC quite rightly refers interested parties to a more reputable source.

Hypothetically, if every player with real cash balances at Full Tilt were collectively owed $300 million, I'd be very interested to know what PERCENT of players could be paid in full starting with the lowest balance and working your way up if they just paid out a million. What PERCENT if they paid back just $30 million? I could be wrong, but I think the numbers would be surprising in that it wouldn't take a large % of the 300 million to affect a large percent of the player pool. I'd bet 30 million (10%) would probably take care of half the players (50%) starting from the bottom up.

It is because the poll was made before AGCC revoked FTP's license. Given that any sane person with $ on FTP would prefer AGCC not to revoke the license, since at that point it would diminish FTP's chances of being sold, now that pole is pretty much asking a different question: is AGCC legit enough to license the "new FTP".

I also don't really think that voting for "yes" pre-revocation and opposing after is/was hypocritical. AGCC's main goals and objectives are the ones of security of players - they should've done everything to accommodate the deal. It is their license, their problem with it, their responsibility of dealing with it and resolving everything. By voting yes, I, for example, supported the idea of AGCC owning up to the mess they were a part of, publically admitting their incompetence, trying to fix the situation as best as they could (albeit rightfully sacrificing their future reputation and image etc.) and taking it from there.

With that said, the situation in its reality may be completely opposite, and moves done by all parties are indeed optimal for achieving the end-goal, but again, given all the information blah etc.

But what good does paying half the players do?

30 million would probably take care of 85% of the population but you cant pay off the 85% to leave the 15% with the most at risk

True. However, the PK audit did fail to disclose risks to its business in it audit.



I have wondered this same thing since MM said on QJs that you could pay off 90% of the players with ~$20M.

Obviously this is the basis of GBT's plan to offer equity to some of the owners. If you could convert a large majority of these people, from debt to equity, then you could buy FTP on the cheap on their backs (just give them a worse deal compared to your deal)....and you could offer then fantastic junk bond like terms, that if everything went well you (the buyer) would do fine, if not, you hit the ejection seat...the problem is all in the terms.....


A vulture investor could pay off the 85% then try to offer the 15% either a bond or an equity deal....clearly a vulture will not offer them a good deal (because he wants to get paid for putting it together and controlling the business), but it might appear to be a good deal depending on how its presented. In these deals, TERMS are everything....and if you have never been through one you never know all the legal tricks these deal contain (you only learn what a good deal is or a bad deal is after the fact or with experience). I would expect that the 15%, who would represent the fast amount of debt, would lack real control for their equity (non-voting shares) and be forced to sell shares back to FTP (instead of a fair market).

The only way player debtors would get a fair deal is to organize to negotiate a fair deal, but since FTP knows all the owners and the owners don't know each other that may be difficult to achieve.

There are Bots that are as good as people at some levels.

is it good if they give back 50% bankrolls on account with T$ and 10% of this can be withraw each mounth, and give us 50% rake back to start for a period of time?

or just made them play poorly. fwiw anybody that plays ~1 million hands at 1c/2c is probably a bot imo and its not like they are a threat.

Why would you or anyone deposit into a site that only let you take 10% out? All the deposits have to be covered and your money needs to be available on demand. That's what caused all these issues in the first place - they money wasn't available for players to withdrawal.

This is a pretty interesting discussion considering its already been mentioned that the new investors were looking at the posibilities of turning the higher balances into equity.

Its hard to estimate exactly what is owed but its fairly safe to estimate that the top 10% of account balances are owed the vast majority of money.

I will say this, if this guy pulls this off he will be a genius in terms of getting a huge stake in a company without having to put very much of his own money in (which is his whole goal here obviously)

In my opinion he has no intention of putting in 50M let alone 400M

I think I'd rather have one of the junk bonds Tapie appears to be selling.

This all appears like it is becomming a more and more farcical situation with unrealistic/unworkable salvation plans coming out from the woodwork.

The best thing that can happen is all these proposals get binned and then as much money is clawed back from the FTP shareholders as possible.

Any assets are sold off to the highest bidder(s) and then all proceeds are distributed to the players who are owed funds which should hopefully result in everyone getting 50c in the $ back or whatever it comes to. If the DoJ chips in too then fine and maybe more gets returned to players but if not what the heck it doesnt really matter.

If this is left to carry on like this then nothing will get done and nobody willg et anything for years to come and probably even nothing.

All the rest is BS and causing delays which lessens the amount everyone will eventually get back and cannot for the life of me understand why all this time wasting is permitted to continue.

The survival of FTP is of no real importance whatsoever..its totally about how much money can be generated for the players to get their money back and you do not need to have a revived FTP to do this.

If the current shreholders put money in and the DoJ and any assets are sold off then more than half of what is owed goes back to the players anyway and its as simple as that and doesnt need a Tapis who seems to want to propose the first two parts of this anyway.

He was probably prepared to spend the same amount of money to license the technology and co-promote the ISPT as he will end up out of pocket to control the company.

Whether genius or luckbox, the result would be amazing.