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FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)
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08-28-2011 , 02:22 PM
Jeff,

When did you become FT's lawyer?
08-28-2011 , 02:23 PM
I am not trying to be rude here, but Jeff, can you add any kind of new and relevant information that is not already out there?

Are you still planning on addressing the questions Noah sent to you?
08-28-2011 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXpokerZZ
Jeff,

When did you become FT's lawyer?
I began representing them in the class action matter about a week after it was filed. I represented them on an appeal involving Clonie Gowen earlier this year. I also represented a group of domain names including theirs and others in a dispute brought by the State of Kentucky against 141 domain names.
08-28-2011 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker
I am not trying to be rude here, but Jeff, can you add any kind of new and relevant information that is not already out there?
First of all, he's done so already. Second, he has no responsibility to do that.
08-28-2011 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker
I am not trying to be rude here, but Jeff, can you add any kind of new and relevant information that is not already out there?

Are you still planning on addressing the questions Noah sent to you?
Also, are you billing for the hours that you spend on twoplustwo? I assume that you must be, and it'd be an awesome irony if FTP was wasting their remaining money paying you ~$1k an hour to dance around saying anything of substance
08-28-2011 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker
I am not trying to be rude here, but Jeff, can you add any kind of new and relevant information that is not already out there?

Are you still planning on addressing the questions Noah sent to you?
The company will respond to the majority of Noah's questions by releasing three statements beginning with the first this week. I am passing all other questions posted here along and hope they too will be answered soon. I am sorry that you and others feel the information posted so far has not been new information.
08-28-2011 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I began representing them in the class action matter about a week after it was filed. I represented them on an appeal involving Clonie Gowen earlier this year. I also represented a group of domain names including theirs and others in a dispute brought by the State of Kentucky against 141 domain names.
Are you aware of all offers since Black Friday or only offers made since you became FT counsel?
08-28-2011 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffmet3
Also, are you billing for the hours that you spend on twoplustwo? I assume that you must be, and it'd be an awesome irony if FTP was wasting their remaining money paying you ~$1k an hour to dance around saying anything of substance
I appreciate that you are obviously very upset. No, I am not billing anyone for the last six or so hours that I have been trying to respond to questions. This is something that I am doing on my own free time (and in the darkness of the power outage that has enveloped my community)
08-28-2011 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXpokerZZ
Are you aware of all offers since Black Friday or only offers made since you became FT counsel?
I have been informed of all offers since Black Friday.
08-28-2011 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD
I don't know. It appears from the court documents, etc., that the DOJ attempted to freeze all of Bitar's assets.
Any guesses why they havent gone after Howard (yet)
08-28-2011 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I appreciate that you are obviously very upset. No, I am not billing anyone for the last six or so hours that I have been trying to respond to questions. This is something that I am doing on my own free time (and in the darkness of the power outage that has enveloped my community)
Jeff,

I want to thank you for being here on a weekend. A lot of us appreciate your time and effort.
08-28-2011 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I began representing them in the class action matter about a week after it was filed. I represented them on an appeal involving Clonie Gowen earlier this year. I also represented a group of domain names including theirs and others in a dispute brought by the State of Kentucky against 141 domain names.
Jeff,

Since you represented defendants in the class action suit I assume you were present at the pretrial hearing where defendant Gordon was granted a dismissal from the suit with prejudice. I realize you did not represent him.

Can you tell me on what grounds this motion was granted ? Isn't it normally a question for the trier of fact whether or not Gordon knew or should have known about the alleged illegal activities ?


Was any consideration given by Gordon for his dismissal ? Did the plaintiffs agree to having Gordon dismissed ?

Have you made motions similar to Gordon on behalf of your clients in the same case ?
08-28-2011 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I have been informed of all offers since Black Friday.
To follow up on your answer to my previous questions regarding whether there have been offers that would have paid all players in full. Are you aware of offers from MB and PS? My understanding is that both these offers would have paid players in full.
08-28-2011 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD
I don't know. It appears from the court documents, etc., that the DOJ attempted to freeze all of Bitar's assets.
I don't know if there are other court document's you're refering to, but from reading the initial indictment it was my understanding that they only went directly after company assets with the rem forfiture, and that the personal asses are subject to forfiture, but probably pending the outcome of the criminal cases brought against the individuals in question.

I guess Jeff could actually settle this though, but either way it is obvious that the DOJ was not even able to freeze all company assets so it is very likely all the defendents have access to plenty of personal assets that they are free to do whatever they want with.
08-28-2011 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn_lundgren
Jeff,

Since you represented defendants in the class action suit I assume you were present at the pretrial hearing where defendant Gordon was granted a dismissal from the suit with prejudice. I realize you did not represent him.

Can you tell me on what grounds this motion was granted ? Isn't it normally a question for the trier of fact whether or not Gordon knew or should have known about the alleged illegal activities ?


Was any consideration given by Gordon for his dismissal ? Did the plaintiffs agree to having Gordon dismissed ?

Have you made motions similar to Gordon on behalf of your clients in the same case ?
The plaintiffs voluntarily dismissed P. Gordon from the action, with prejudice (meaning he cannot be added back).
08-28-2011 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn_lundgren
Jeff,

Since you represented defendants in the class action suit I assume you were present at the pretrial hearing where defendant Gordon was granted a dismissal from the suit with prejudice. I realize you did not represent him.

Can you tell me on what grounds this motion was granted ? Isn't it normally a question for the trier of fact whether or not Gordon knew or should have known about the alleged illegal activities ?


Was any consideration given by Gordon for his dismissal ? Did the plaintiffs agree to having Gordon dismissed ?

Have you made motions similar to Gordon on behalf of your clients in the same case ?
Only Gordon, his attorney and the plaintiff's attorney know the answer to this question. I can tell you that yes, I have filed similar motions - identical actually - for two individuals and those remain pending.
08-28-2011 , 02:41 PM
Jesus, give the guy a break. He's a lawyer, not a owner/manager at FTP. He's doing the best he can to answer questions and seems sympathetic to the fact that people are out money right now and rightfully angry/scared about their chances of getting it back, but he can't answer what he doesn't know or cannot relay due to client/attorney privilege.

A little too much shooting the messenger going on in here, IMO. Everyone bitches when no one says anything then they gang up on the one person trying to provide whatever answers he can.

I'm very interested in whether or not the upcoming FTP announcements will reveal what you are suggesting they will, Jeff. Do you know anything about why it has taken them so long to put together these announcement? Surely you can understand that four months without substantive information from FTP has massively damaged their reputation and brand equity.
08-28-2011 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by girahy
Appreciate you coming on to answer questions. Probably not easy. IF players are paid back how will ftp handle accounts that they just took money from without even redistribution for whatever reason. The illegal taking of funds from player accounts with no real reasons has been going on for a very long time in the "security" department long considered to be the most corrupt around. Will dormant or suspended accounts still be refunded or will ftp still "pocket" this money.

Melanie has already said her department used to amuse themselves closing accounts and not responding until it just ended up in ftp coffers and bonuses and promotions were had
Wondering if you could comment on this Jeff. Are those "missing" funds going to be accounted for at some point.
08-28-2011 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXpokerZZ
To follow up on your answer to my previous questions regarding whether there have been offers that would have paid all players in full. Are you aware of offers from MB and PS? My understanding is that both these offers would have paid players in full.
That is not my understanding.
08-28-2011 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ
Jesus, give the guy a break. He's a lawyer, not a owner/manager at FTP. He's doing the best he can to answer questions and seems sympathetic to the fact that people are out money right now and rightfully angry/scared about their chances of getting it back, but he can't answer what he doesn't know or cannot relay due to client/attorney privilege.

A little too much shooting the messenger going on in here, IMO. Everyone bitches when no one says anything then they gang up on the one person trying to provide whatever answers he can.

I'm very interested in whether or not the upcoming FTP announcements will reveal what you are suggesting they will, Jeff. Do you know anything about why it has taken them so long to put together these announcement? Surely you can understand that four months without substantive information from FTP has massively damaged their reputation and brand equity.
I do not really think there is one reason. And I don't think any reason will be satisfactory at this point. The company has apologized and has committed to more public statements and I hope that in time such practice will help in some way to make up for the poor communication to date.
08-28-2011 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D2D
I don't know if there are other court document's you're refering to, but from reading the initial indictment it was my understanding that they only went directly after company assets with the rem forfiture, and that the personal asses are subject to forfiture, but probably pending the outcome of the criminal cases brought against the individuals in question.

I guess Jeff could actually settle this though, but either way it is obvious that the DOJ was not even able to freeze all company assets so it is very likely all the defendents have access to plenty of personal assets that they are free to do whatever they want with.
There was in fact a very large seizure of Ray's assets as the original poster suggested.
08-28-2011 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I appreciate that you are obviously very upset. No, I am not billing anyone for the last six or so hours that I have been trying to respond to questions. This is something that I am doing on my own free time (and in the darkness of the power outage that has enveloped my community)
In that case, I rescind my statement and apologize. I just hope you understand that the animosity and skepticism that you're encountering is a result of the events that have unfolded over the past 5 months. You might very well be different, but it's hard not to have developed feelings of disgust for anyone that is associated with Fulltilt and its subsidiaries.

And the 3 weekly statements seems like merely a continuation of the dog and pony show. I hope FTP will reconsider and just release it at once.
08-28-2011 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ifrah
I do not really think there is one reason. And I don't think any reason will be satisfactory at this point. The company has apologized and has committed to more public statements and I hope that in time such practice will help in some way to make up for the poor communication to date.
Personally, I'll believe it when I see it, but I guess it is something that they've acknowledged how badly they've done to date. If they improve significantly going forward, yes, I think it would definitely help improve their image as well as reassuring obviously anxious customers that their questions and issues are being heard and addressed as best as possible.

Others have said it, but my thanks to you as well for taking time out of your personal life to answer as many questions as you can to the best of your ability. I hope you have power back soon.
08-28-2011 , 02:50 PM
Mr Ifrah, I have a serious question.

Can you tell us either something we dont already know or anything that we might find useful that may help us?

Realistically if you can't provide either of the above then we may be wasting each others time.
08-28-2011 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D2D
I don't know if there are other court document's you're refering to, but from reading the initial indictment it was my understanding that they only went directly after company assets with the rem forfiture, and that the personal asses are subject to forfiture, but probably pending the outcome of the criminal cases brought against the individuals in question.

I guess Jeff could actually settle this though, but either way it is obvious that the DOJ was not even able to freeze all company assets so it is very likely all the defendents have access to plenty of personal assets that they are free to do whatever they want with.
The gov't brought 3 actions, 2 parts in a civil action, naming the companies as defendants and then the in rem civil action vs all rights title and interest in any assets of those defendants (there is no indictment in rem), the 3rd being the criminal action. In the original criminal indictments on 4/15, there were 11 individuals named, and a list of seized property attached there as well. IIRC at least 11-12 of accounts in the name of Ray Bitar were listed there.

      
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