really doesnt seem like u should be staking ppl if u dont snap drop someone u describe this way.

was there any head massaging?

If you take morality out of it though, can you really blame guys like "Dan" given there are people like OP around? I mean the moment OP realised Dan sucked at poker and had been lying from the off he should have burnt all bridges with the guy and told him to GTFO out of his life, yet instead continued to stake him and offer to coach the guy? And then he steals $15k from OP and he seemingly didn't bat an eyelid and even let the guy come in to do laundry? It just has to be a level... how on earth weren't you in a fit of rage when he showed up at your door? The sheer cheek of it would put me on life tilt.

We often question how scammers sleep at night and how they can do what they do but if the options were steal $15k from someone who cares as much as to not mention it when you turn up because you had nowhere else to do your laundry OR flip burgers @ McDonalds 8 hours a day for a year for the same amount - it's an easy choice isn't it? Like someone said, OP has too much money, too young ... I'd really advise you get someone to come and help you manage your money because by the sounds of it you were just asking to be robbed.

Do you know for a fact that Dan is flapjack1270? Or are you just going by what a scammer told you?

get this guy on the case. he'll uncover the scam

[IMG][/IMG]

Que?

Sick read.

Dam can i get a 10-15k freroll id probably be a better candidate then the people you chose.. You need a better screening process...

Fyp

+1

Sucks OP and GL in the recovery process but jesus wept. Be a little bit smarter about what you do. I hope this doesn't come off as another "random berates someone for getting scammed" comment cause that's not my intention. You are dealing with a lot of money and if this guy can just send you a couple of messages and end up getting staked by you then you sound like you would be a fairly easy mark to infiltrate. Tighten it up!

The one person you skype with says Dan stole his laptop. Makes a case the laptop he left behind is the one he stole? Encryption maybe done by original owner, so the laptop was worthless to Dan.

Please photocopy and upload the dark notes, may give us all a better idea what you're dealing with

Rough story bro, seems like you owned yourself in all honesty.
I do hope you get your money back some how though!

Where is this horse now?

Did you ask the horse why he was upstairs when he has a shower downstairs to use? With 15k upstairs and someone up there that doesnt need to be, this would be one of my 1st questions.

Is it possible your horse was a look out? For some reason Im thinking this is the case.

Did this horse know you keep monies in the house? Maybe even where?

Hoping niether of these two are members here because Im sure they're reading.

This is a good idea, op upload the notes please.

OP do you play online and did you leave laptops/machines in vicinity of this individual?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using 2+2 Forums

Probably his laptop. I would give it back.

Even if you meet a new acquaintance/friend who is nice, it is really dumb to leave large sums of cash around when they are at your house.

We all get taken for fools at some point in our lives. It's a hard thing to admit,much less to NVG. OP owned his own stupidity in the hopes of saving someone else in the community the same... Seems pretty solid IMO. Just my $0.02

Two of the most tilting types of posts in these kinds of threads:

1. Posts about "teaching him a lesson". Yeah sure you want to get a felony which could land you in prison for double digit years just for what, to feel better about yourself? I understand most people who post this are just bustos who don't understand the value of money but trust me losing 15k will not be life-changing to most people who live in the US. It wouldn't be worth the punishments even if it got you the 15k, but it won't get it to you so it's even more ******ed.

2. Posts calling the OP stupid or saying that he somehow deserved it. First off most people in poker and in life are honest. Obviously when you look at the subset looking for stakes it gets a bit worse, but OP has said that he's made a lot of money, even after the scams, by using his judgement in deciding who to stake. People make mistakes and it's one thing to constructively criticize how the OP handled the situation, but it's clear the motivation behind people who post stuff like that is because again you're busto and just need to put down the OP for losing 15k because you've never even come close to having 15k to your name before and are jealous. It's super transparent so do yourself a favor and don't let everyone else know of this fact and just stfu.

I put two horses who had never played PLO in the Maryland 5/5 PLO game. The both did well and were +EV in the game. One got it in with 98xx on a 998 flop for 250bb in a single raised pot vs the bare second nut flush draw.

Point being, "sucking" isn't really an obstacle. It's easy to fix a few leaks and make people winning players, so him being bad wasn't my biggest concern. It just meant I had to put effort into teaching Flapjack which I hadn't expected since he was a HSPLO HU player who had a lot of success.

Not sure how I'm supposed to know he was lying from the start. He didn't lie about the Flapjack thing. I didn't find out about any lies until I went through his stuff.

I did mention him taking the money. I didn't ask why he took a shower upstairs. He denied taking the money. I also brought up him stealing stuff from the guy he lived with previously, and he denied that too. Said the guy must be joking with me because they're still friends.

If you're asking if I saw him type in his password and play online, then no. I don't know he's Flapjack any more than I know jungleman is jungleman. All the evidence points to him being Flapjack though. Aside from him saying it, people from his past confirming it, and him having expensive things in the past, not to mention why someone would try to say they are a suspected superuser.

My initial thought as well, but I asked him and it was a different laptop. The way I described the laptop left at my house he said something like "No, that's his laptop. He must have sold my stuff to get to Maryland."

It's possible he was also a new horse, but I very highly doubt that. No one knew where I kept the money except Dan, and that's only because he woke me up at 4am to ask for money and he saw where I got it from.

I don't play online except for the occasional micro stakes sessions.

oh man in what world would anyone stake flapjack :S

I bet you fare well in life though. I wish I was half the gentleman that you are.gl

I just went through Dan's stuff again. Looks like when he came back he took his notebook, along with a bunch of the papers. He left tons of clothes. He has two garbage bags full of clothes and a big suitcase full of clothes as well. He took his laptop, sim cards/USBs, checkbook, random papers, and his shoulderbag.

Aside from the clothes, this is what's left.


This is a picture on the day we went through the stuff. He took all his change too.


This is just one piece of the many dark notes he had.


I know he stole money, but I felt bad for him. I honestly thought he was going to kill himself.


I'm not sure if scamming was his intention or he was in a panic when he was losing, stole the money to run it up at blackjack, lost in blackjack, and then took off because he was scared. Not sure if it matters. Strange that someone would have the intention to scam, but then leave all their stuff at the house.

He had some other notes that were very stalker like with some girl he had never met. Cliffs are, he falls in love with a girl he is staring at from across the room. Then he calls her a cold bitch for not noticing him, but he's still in love with her. It might be real life or a poem he read and wrote down. Other poems/notes about this girl are in the notebook too.

When I talked with his mother, she said he was in communication with his grandma (confirmed by a note he had that said make sure you call grandma every day) and that he was getting his life together. So maybe he thought this was going to be a turning point in his life, but then gave up when things didn't start out well.


This is a little more of our Skype convo.


[10/10/2013 9:53:08 PM] Daniel: Hey man. Not sure if you got my message on facebook or not on Saturdayt (i thought you were pissed off at me or something). Someone else had confronted me about staking in the detroit area when I ran into him at the Horseshoe Hammond on Saturday. Detroit doesn't spread PLO every day, so I'd like to come there instead. But wanted to make sure we were going to set something up. I know you said you wanted to watch me play on my own money or whatever when I first get there... I'd rather have something set up or in the works so when I get there we can get right on the **** and hit the tables asap. I didn't know if I offended you with the facebook message by saying someone else had offered to stake me or not because I hadn't heard from you until today.
[10/11/2013 12:22:00 AM] Chad Power: No, I never read it, I will now
[10/11/2013 12:26:22 AM] Chad Power: I don't have a facebook message from you explaining you got another staking offer. You muct have sent it to someone else.
[10/11/2013 9:50:22 AM] Daniel: Let me know if you got that message on here last night. And your thoughts.
Like I said, I'd prefer to come out there and work with you because I think that'd be a lot better match.
[10/11/2013 12:14:13 PM] Chad Power: Just tell me now whats up
[10/11/2013 12:14:21 PM] Chad Power: Bc I don't know what message you're talking about
[10/11/2013 12:14:29 PM] Chad Power: I saw you got another staking offer, that doesn't make me mad
[10/11/2013 12:14:35 PM] Chad Power: just lmk what you're going to do.
[10/11/2013 12:14:48 PM] Daniel: It just explaining basically what I explained on skype yesterday.
[10/11/2013 12:15:18 PM] Daniel: That I wasn't sure if you're actually offering to stake me or if you want to see me play first or what. We never actually discussed it and then this guy offered it to me on the spot.
[10/11/2013 12:15:30 PM] Daniel: So I wasn't sure if I should take this and move up to detroit or head out east.
[10/11/2013 12:15:49 PM] Chad Power: Ya I suppose I wasn
[10/11/2013 12:15:54 PM] Chad Power: 't official with anything
[10/11/2013 12:16:03 PM] Chad Power: I just wanted to make sure your story checked out
[10/11/2013 12:16:11 PM] Daniel: I understand that.

I decided to gamble with him and give him some initial money to play with. Any staking deal, live especially, is going to have a leap of faith point. Based on everything I decided to do that here. It didn't work out, I'm not looking for sympathy, I will grow from my mistake. The point of this is
1. Hopefully prevent someone else from being scammed.
2. Shed some light on him potentially being a super user.
I can handle the criticism of my mistakes, and I appreciate the advice from those who gave it.

EDIT: I should have mentioned he also took a cell phone (meaning he had three) and after I had spoken with him, he texted me from a 4th number.