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Old 05-27-2017, 01:31 PM   #76
Sect7G
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

I'll be honest, I honestly thought a few years back that Party Poker was content with sitting in the corner covering up and hoping that their Poker market share slide would magically come to an end. Yet over the past 6 months-year they have gotten off the stool and are fighting hard at becoming the premier spot to play online poker.
And I think they will accomplish just that.

Patrick, tbh I didn't like your answer in regards to collusion/bots. Your response reads like a stock answer just like every other site. If the players on this forum are saying it's a problem... then it's a problem. At the very least perception becomes reality in regards to where a player feels safe.
I know that collusion control isn't a huge priority for any site because it's not revenue plus (assuming rebates are given) but neither is customer support. Yet customer support is given a higher budget because it's more transparent to the consumer when it's lacking.

Overall great job Party and for my tidbit of complaint it would be oftentimes Party Poker has shown to be penny smart and dollar dumb. 300k overlays is a lot of pennies.

Fixes:

-more efficient satellite program from the ground up to end ridiculous overlays.
-never take players funds points for inactivity etc.
-never devalue Party Points without matched compensation.
-Re-educate consumers on the real value and perceived value of Party Points to increase a players motivation to obtain and consume them.
-make the Live Events tab more clear on prizepools/general info.

Would like to add what I think they've done really well.
-Partnerships with Live Venues.
-Haven't quit on aggressive guarantees despite coming up short.
-Brought back hope to players that real competition is coming to the marketplace
-Are prepared to spend real money directly to players to help rebuild the brand.
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Old 05-27-2017, 02:39 PM   #77
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Somewhat disappointing that the Party ambassador has come in and replied itt since I posted this but never addressed it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazzyB123 View Post
I've said this from the start, but the points expiring is nothing more than a money grab from PartyPoker; why do they expire instead of being automatically converted into money?

Players are distracted by a shiny new rakeback system to take away from the fact that all of the points from dormant accounts/people like OP who were unaware will add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of rakeback that has suddenly expired and goes straight into Party's pocket.

A greedy, greedy money grab from Party. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 05-27-2017, 02:53 PM   #78
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

To be fair to PartyPoker, 40% rakeback is more than just a "shiny new rakeback system" (if I understand your use of those words correctly). 40% is massive.

Still though, it's pretty lame to pocket people's points by having them expire, especially after saying that they could be converted whenever (as is OP's case).
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:36 PM   #79
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Similar thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

Opened an account, with all the bonus codes and played some $10 SNGs. Things were going well, was up about 36 buy ins plus some rake back. Then after about a week was in the middle of a session when I ran out of milk and made the mistake of staying logged into the site.

When I came back to my house from the shop with the milk 20 minutes later it wasn't there anymore. No house, no driveway, nothing, just a flat square plot of grassed land with a statue of Mike Sexton and John Duthie on it.

I hope that they can fix these kind of technical issues soon and then I will be back playing on Party.
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Old 05-27-2017, 07:26 PM   #80
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Party poker? Are you giving me refunds for participlating in bot filled games?
Mhoe can you protect my money from this when you can't respond to a simple email after a week.

Disgraceful
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:01 PM   #81
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

If there were one more thing needed for me to never play Party again it's Patrick Leonard representing them.
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:22 PM   #82
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by Coolstorybro. View Post
If there were one more thing needed for me to never play Party again it's Patrick Leonard representing them.
I don't know why you say this... he is at least giving a solid effort in talking to the players of this forum about the company he works for. The same can't be said about many competitors.
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:32 PM   #83
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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I don't know why you say this... he is at least giving a solid effort in talking to the players of this forum about the company he works for. The same can't be said about many competitors.
A while back he was interviewing for his staking company, he offered me an interview after I applied (I was out of work at the time), I got up early on the Monday ready for the interview and heard nothing from him, literally never heard a thing after he told me my interview was at 9am or whatever despite me contacting him numerous times. I then read he wanted to be the most professional stable out there and just laughed to myself.

It's all well and good him coming on here and telling us Party employees agree they're not the finished article but no ****, wouldn't all employees of all non-Stars sites say the same about their site?
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:01 PM   #84
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolstorybro. View Post
A while back he was interviewing for his staking company, he offered me an interview after I applied (I was out of work at the time), I got up early on the Monday ready for the interview and heard nothing from him, literally never heard a thing after he told me my interview was at 9am or whatever despite me contacting him numerous times. I then read he wanted to be the most professional stable out there and just laughed to myself.

It's all well and good him coming on here and telling us Party employees agree they're not the finished article but no ****, wouldn't all employees of all non-Stars sites say the same about their site?
So you are taking your anger out on partypoker cause you got big timed ? your loss
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:37 PM   #85
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Removing derail, carry on.

Last edited by DublinMeUp; 05-27-2017 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Derail removal
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:56 PM   #86
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by GazzyB123 View Post
Somewhat disappointing that the Party ambassador has come in and replied itt since I posted this but never addressed it...
There is a very good reason why this was never addressed. There is no decently honest explanation as to why they would do this. It's all well and good saying they gave plenty of notice etc etc but some people don't get this information and it is inherently unfair that they should lose out of $ because of this.

A few years ago a toddler was snatched by an alligator at Disney World Florida. A Disney spokesperson gave a statement saying that there was a sign saying "don't go in the water".

If there was a beach area within a world famous holiday resort full of kids where there was the possibility of being attacked by an Alligator I would want more than a f**king sign saying don't go in the water..

It's all well and good standing by terms and conditions but when people are losing out then something should be done about it..
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:39 PM   #87
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by Coolstorybro. View Post
A while back he was interviewing for his staking company, he offered me an interview after I applied (I was out of work at the time), I got up early on the Monday ready for the interview and heard nothing from him, literally never heard a thing after he told me my interview was at 9am or whatever despite me contacting him numerous times. I then read he wanted to be the most professional stable out there and just laughed to myself.

It's all well and good him coming on here and telling us Party employees agree they're not the finished article but no ****, wouldn't all employees of all non-Stars sites say the same about their site?
Sounds as though he saved himself some time not interviewing a whiny ***** like you
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Old 05-28-2017, 07:32 AM   #88
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Hi everyone,

Patrick Leonard - Ambassador for Party Poker here. Will address all points from the thread. Just to be clear, we don't work like other companies, I don't have to send this through PR part of the company, to us, quick feedback and response is important.

Firstly, let me say that whilst the changes have been huge in the last 12 months since I joined the company, not one person in the company thinks we are close to the finished product. Everybody is on the same page, we have done really well increasing numbers, but as a site we are far from perfect yet, but every day we work very hard to make sure we can improve from yesterday, we are a proactive site that wants to improve and become the biggest poker site in the world again, but we are aware of how we perform at the moment.

First of all, let me describe the 10 key missions of the companies:

- Invest in software development to deliver an industry leading player experience
- Improve customer services and strive to resolve player issues in the same day
- Reward the loyalty of players who start games and keep the action going
- Look after smaller bankroll players with value added promotions
- Fight against the use of third party software that gives an unfair advantage
- Invest marketing budgets within the poker community
- Develop partypoker Live to become the largest live poker tour in the world
- Support partners and have their backs
- Only appoint management who get poker, who are trusted, and who actually care
- Hold hands up to the poker community when mistakes are made



I will now go into points raised in the thread, if I miss something, let me know and I'll address it, have nothing to hide or anything I want to dodge.


1. They allow cheating

That is simply not true. We have teams working on detecting bots and people using third party software and its strictly prohibited, if anything PP goes over the edge the other way to protect plays in games, restricting HUD's on cash game tables etc. There has been many serious cases that I have been personally involved and spent tens of hours on to help prevent any kind of cheating and we are committed to putting resources in to preventing this. I even posted it as one of my main company objectives:

Fight against the use of third party software that gives an unfair advantage

2. Changing the rake back system and expiring old points

We used every way of correspondence to ensure that people knew about this change. I was in at least 15 Skype groups that people were speaking about it and it seemed general consensus throughout the poker community. The idea behind the change was not to take from people but to GIVE TO PEOPLE. The shop had prices slashes dramatically, you could buy $1k tournament dollars for a little over 5k points etc, we slashed everything so that people would use points and play in out biggest ever series. I think last year it was roughly $5m gte? This year we had $20m guarantee in the series and after the push with the tickets we managed to amass over $27m in buy ins! I think the store change was a huge success and amazing offer to regular players to get crazy good deals whilst allowing recreational players to have a shot at huge buy ins. Moving forward, we have a lot more simplified system that benefits everybody.

3. Software bugs

You said that certain buttons make you call instead of fold or raise instead of call etc, I have never heard of this ever, nobody has ever brought this to my attention personally and myself and hundreds of players that I'm in contact with on a daily basis have never had this problem. I hate to sound negative, but I really suggest checking your system to see if there is some kind of software installed from some live trip like we saw previously at EPT stops, it sounds extremely strange to me.

4. No reimbursement for disconnects on their end

I know Colette personally does a great job digging into these cases and making sure players are well looked after but...

5. Support staff disconnects when they feel like it

I'm not saying this is true, but the support that we currently offer isn't at a higher enough standard or in line with our standard for other parts of our product. We want to be the best poker site in the world? Well its critical we have the best support team too. Days ago there were huge plans made and things sealed to ensure that in the short term this drastically improves. I think it will be a great improvement to the overall site.


Chuck Bass -

5) Their support is terrible. (see above)

6) Their attitude towards cheating.

Again, don't want to just say "see above" each time, but this really isn't true. I have sat on calls with "suspected" cheats personally, been involved in case reports, analysed statistics etc. Obviously we can't comment legally publicly, but it simply isn't true. You can ask limitless if you want, he sat in recently on a call with us as a translator for somebody when I was leading the call.

7) To a lesser extent, software.

Absolutely correct. Our software is not good enough. Overall, there are huge improvements to be made, they are being made. I was involved with the iPhone app, we saw this as a critical software implementation that needed to be implemented ASAP, but we wanted to make sure it was high quality. There was extensive feedback from my side and every suggestion was implemented to a higher standard than I could expect. Our iPhone app is now IMO the best in the business, and thats the standard that we need to set ourselves for everything else now.

Next software you can expect to improve is the lobby function. There are a dozen or so improvements that need to be made and are currently being beta tested and will be released in the short term. I'm confident that you will like them. We are also working on all other aspects, two days ago I got a screenshot of how the new table will look like during gameplay. HUGE improvement and its not the final product yet. But absolutely, the main two things we need to improve on in short and long term is support+software, but we know that and are working on daily basis to make sure that is done.

"But yeah these threads definitely serve a purpose because maybe Mike Sexton or someone will actually read them and finally do something. Their current ambassadors, managers et al don't give a **** about any of these actually serious issues and only focus on boasting about how there's a new $5200 highroller this at zomg reached its guarantee."

Obviously very far from the truth and the work that goes on behind the scenes is actually really hard work and getting a $5200 high roller (I think you mean 25k?) to beat the equivalent of that running on stars does obviously still mean a lot and shows how the site has transformed in one year, but its also alongside recording breaking $11, $22, $55, $109 and $215 fields. Year on year we are the fastest growing poker site in the world, thats not because we have a $25k or a $5k tournament running.

Our live tournaments which DTD and their super hard working team deserve huge credit for, starts to give people confidence in the brand again, starts to allow red-regs (players who like to deposit and play on the weekend or at night and enjoy the competition but don't necessarily play to win or for a living) to trust the brand again, to trust that they will receive good tournaments and to trust that they will have a great playing experience. However, its our job as a company to make sure that its not only good prize pools, structures and schedules that attracts them, there needs to be good software, good support and many other small things that were previously neglected to HELP keep them coming back every week and wanting to play on the site.

If you ask any employee at Party Poker are they happy at how good the site is at the moment the answer is no. If its not no then management wouldn't accept that. The site is improved, the site is good relative to where it was, but relative to our expectations of ourselves and our pride about our product its not there yet. However, we will work each day (and usually night!) to ensure that one day, in the not so distant future we deliver the very best site possible for poker players... by poker players.

Keep the faith!

How about you answer questions.

Whats with the disturbingly low reinbursement for your pathetic bot detection? Why have you flat out STOLEN players money from dormant accounts converting to your new system. Forget the promises of this and that. You flat out stole from your players and you want us to keep the faith? I doubt you will show your face in here again and answer these questions
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Old 05-28-2017, 08:06 AM   #89
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Pads is the new dnegs?
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Old 05-28-2017, 08:53 AM   #90
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Pads is the new dnegs?


#expireit
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:41 AM   #91
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Do us a favour guys and stop throwing mud for a few months. We're trying to address all these issues especially customer service and software issues and whilst really want and need constructive feedback, can do without the endless vilification. Just look at it like a restaurant under new management and come back and see us in a while; these complex issues aren't sorted overnight.



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Old 05-29-2017, 06:40 AM   #92
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by John Duthie View Post
Do us a favour guys and stop throwing mud for a few months. We're trying to address all these issues especially customer service and software issues and whilst really want and need constructive feedback, can do without the endless vilification. Just look at it like a restaurant under new management and come back and see us in a while; these complex issues aren't sorted overnight.



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John,

I respect you a lot and I enjoy playing poker with you in London on the occasions we do but this is a really lousy response to very fair qualms and issues.

I've played on Party a bit the past few months and I haven't had many issues but there are problems and people shouldn't be 'told off' for airing their grievances.
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:32 AM   #93
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by *CHOMP View Post
How about you answer questions.

Whats with the disturbingly low reinbursement for your pathetic bot detection? Why have you flat out STOLEN players money from dormant accounts converting to your new system. Forget the promises of this and that. You flat out stole from your players and you want us to keep the faith? I doubt you will show your face in here again and answer these questions
Of course he won't show his face in here again. You really think these "sponsored pros" and "player ambassadors" actually care? Of course they don't. They're just looking for a quick short term gain and will happily toe the company line if it means they get a big fat paycheck.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:37 AM   #94
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by John Duthie View Post
Do us a favour guys and stop throwing mud for a few months. We're trying to address all these issues especially customer service and software issues and whilst really want and need constructive feedback, can do without the endless vilification. Just look at it like a restaurant under new management and come back and see us in a while; these complex issues aren't sorted overnight.



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It's not even the same stakes. You have to compare it to an investing firm or bank that just took people's rightfully earned comps/perks from an institution or company and then just had those perks revoked. What if you flew with an airline and accrued 100,000 frequent flier miles and all of a sudden the company put out some emails notifying that they will be taking those miles if you don't convert. It's an unethical move from any type of company to take value back that was rightfully earned. I don't even play on Party but anyone can see they made a retarded move when it's comes to trust and reputation with their customers especially long time customers. It's dumb to to snag people's money just because they havn't checked their email in a while.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:15 AM   #95
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

U can blame party for anything but not for teh points. Its not their mistake if you r too retarded to press a button every 2 weeks. I still remember when some guys had fpps from an SNE run 2 years ago on stars and were bitching and moaning when they changed to coins. Some pokerplayers just should try and get their **** together and converting points worth several 100 bucks w a mouseclick every now and then looks like a good start to me...
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:51 AM   #96
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Come on guys, party has done a great job improving and growing lately. Look at their tournaments, and obviously not just the 25k. 888 had an opportunity but failed, party str doing a great job. Yes, a few valid points ITT for sure; I hate how the rewards change was handled and obviously software is awful and support leaves something to be desired.

Then again, give them a chance and see, they certainly showed endeavours to be a good site to play on..

And seriously! Look who ther competitors are- stars, 888 etc lol? Company endlessly screwing over their customers including literally stealing a bunch from the snes, behaving so unethically to the point where they pushed reputable pros to resign, many of their best staff who worked for years there and pushing towards more bingo etc. And yeah guys 888 is surely way better at all the points complained about in the thread lol
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:10 PM   #97
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
Similar thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

Opened an account, with all the bonus codes and played some $10 SNGs. Things were going well, was up about 36 buy ins plus some rake back. Then after about a week was in the middle of a session when I ran out of milk and made the mistake of staying logged into the site.

When I came back to my house from the shop with the milk 20 minutes later it wasn't there anymore. No house, no driveway, nothing, just a flat square plot of grassed land with a statue of Mike Sexton and John Duthie on it.

I hope that they can fix these kind of technical issues soon and then I will be back playing on Party.
I gotta say I actually found this quite funny. Having said that, what we're trying to do is make the live tournaments tons better than anything out there and also the online site. The latter takes a little bit longer as you can imagine. Stick with us guys and maybe a tad less hate?
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:15 PM   #98
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by John Duthie View Post
Do us a favour guys and stop throwing mud for a few months. We're trying to address all these issues especially customer service and software issues and whilst really want and need constructive feedback, can do without the endless vilification. Just look at it like a restaurant under new management and come back and see us in a while; these complex issues aren't sorted overnight.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The above is a reasonable response IMO.

However, even if some players have been a little remiss in not reading every email from Party Poker carefully, or at all, in respect of activating the validity of rewards points, then Party Poker themselves have also been somewhat remiss by having a system that allows this to happen.

In this day and age we all get a huge number of emails, junk email and all manner of other on line admin to deal with, plus many players have multiple on line poker accounts as well as other betting accounts.

So the key question I would put to Party is: is it fair that some players have missed out on the value of their rewards points? If Party Poker think the answer is "no", or much more no than yes, then they should rectify the situation fairly, and by doing so would increase their credibility both now and going forwards, as a better, fairer and more friendly place to play poker.

As I said, there appears also to be some responsibility on players themselves for not activating the points.

And to now administer payments to players who are out of pocket would cause an extra admin cost for Party Poker.

But I think Party could come up with a compromise as let's face it, the money should not morally have been retained by them and they have benefited from positive cash flow and savings interest by keeping it.

So my suggestion which I believe is fair is that they pay any players who forgot to click the right buttons, or to read the email(s), or were simply unaware, the rewards money but deduct something like a 10% admin fee (to account for player "error") and that they pay it in something like 3 equal monthly installments to players.

This would give players what they deserve, stagger Party's "losses", and ensure that players would be engaged with the web site for 2 to 3 months minimum, so likely use the rewards money as part of their bank roll and therefore increase active player numbers and therefore some of it in rake and juice would be received back by Party. So a win, win situation for all.

This, or something similar to this, I believe is very fair and any short term loss to Party's bottom line I think would be way more than made up for by a huge amount of positive publicity for them and additional goodwill on both sides.

If they don't do something like this, then despite having some very respected, solid and player friendly figures now at the helm and in important positions, they will still be viewed with an air of suspicion as to how much of the brave new world they are saying is imminent is genuinely for the benefit of the company and the players alike, and not just corporate spin based purely on the company being the biggest of all beneficiaries.

Poker is such a tough game for players to survive in, let alone win at, that $1000 lost in rewards points, or even $100 or $50, to some people is significant financially and/or psychologically.

Pokerstars (Amaya) have clearly made a real pig's ear of their brand recently so clearly this is a massive opportunity for Party Poker to step up, and with the likes of Mike Sexton and John Duthie involved they have the know how to do this, but not to pay people their hard earned rewards points money would be a big own goal and Pokerstarsesque.

Last edited by SageDonkey; 05-29-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:23 PM   #99
John Duthie
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

I agree with some of your points here and suspect that any player who feels really hard done by would be listened to were they to contact support.
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:31 PM   #100
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Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

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Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound View Post
Of course he won't show his face in here again. You really think these "sponsored pros" and "player ambassadors" actually care? Of course they don't. They're just looking for a quick short term gain and will happily toe the company line if it means they get a big fat paycheck.
You are either very misinformed, very stupid or both. It really angers me to see people hate on partypoker when clearly they are the only one making an effort at the moment. It is good to call them out on things that are clearly very bad/unethical but can we also please give them some time to get things sorted, big changes like these don't happen over night.
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