+1

Anyway, if it bothers someone that much then don't play online. You're sending info to a webserver when you play just like when you post on here and i don't think it says in the sites t+c's that the info will be kept secret. Maybe they hadn't anticipated people crying about that as long as their money is safe.

Sure, they could ban all stats sites and ban observers from tables they are not playing at but that would be a big negative for the online game and forums like this imo. You couldn't discuss a hand you watched at a ft, you couldn't spot superusers/cheats, you couldn't laugh at a guy who won $30,000 in a $1 tourney and then blew it the same night playing 5000nl.

ya higgy, you must be a BIG loser.

Yeah, much better that bad players stop playing to avoid feeling embarassed.

I've used that site to get a bunch of people I know to stop playing online. My home games have never been better.

Their should always be an opt out facillity to these sites,most are missing so many games anyway that their not really of much value for tracking your own results.So if their only function i to look up others stats to abuse them in chat avoid them in games, or bum hunt them, i really think it should be poss to withdraw our stats from their site for whatever our reason is.

its weird how ptr tracks all of my hands, but misses everyone else's. its also REALLY weird how ptr only misses peoples winning hands, and never their losing ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought sites like PTR don't rely on hand histories sent by the poker site. They use some sort of screen scraper and optical character recognition to recreate hand histories on their own.

Never been on Cake. Perhaps PTR simply hasn't got around to this network.

~ Rick

You're wrong

ehh i like it. but then again i only use it to check up my own stats rather than other peoples.

The question you have to ask yourself is what kind of leverage do we have as players who would like to be able to opt-out. I don't see that we have any direct means of making PTR give us such an option if they don't want to.

The real hope for change may come from the poker sites' continued efforts to enforce their T&C. Ironically, this is where the real privacy concern is brought into play. It's likely possible that Poker Stars, for example, could code their client in such a way as to get a list of all URLs you visit while playing on the site. And then if you visit a banned URL, they could follow-through with appropriate actions including suspensions and account closures. I think they already do some similar things to see if you are running banned software programs. It's a close call whether you consider such actions an invasion of privacy but I'm personally for it if it means we are better protected at the tables. The best approach if you agree may be to write the poker sites you play at, explaining your concerns and encouraging them to adopt whatever measures are necessary to protect you from commercialized datamining ventures like PTR.

Responding to some of the other things people were saying:

I'm not embarrassed by my results, although I suppose I'd have no cause to be anyway since nobody knows who I am. Nor do I feel I'm losing action because of PTR. And I'm not one of these guys who's all up in arms about tracking software and HUDs -- I in fact use both and would prefer a future where these are considered to be acceptable tools. I do think a line gets crossed, however, when you can visit a Web site and acquire extensive and specific historical data about opponents through means other than observation or play. Since I don't do it myself, I'd like to be able to prevent other people from doing it to me. Sites such as PTR should, at a minimum, be required to provide some kind of an opt-out program or else be banned by the poker sites. Sites that already have such bans should seek to more strictly enforce them.

there's another interessting thread giong on about this subjes as well

PTR is terrible for the games and if you dont see why then you are an

lool.. STFU, if ur using trackers and complaining bout PTR, them i guess ur a looser

OK I WILL SPELL IT OUT FOR THE NVGTARDS:
You are a big loser.
You dont want people to know because it is embarrassing.
PTR makes your results public.
You are humiliated.
You stop playing or go to the casino or play blackjack.
ONE LESS FISH YAY.

Jesus ****ing christ how dumb are you people not to see this? And how horribly **** at poker must you be to rely on PTR to tell you if someone is good or bad? JUST WATCH THEM PLAY A HAND FFS!

How do you think it would affect Casino business if the results of every customer was instantly publicly available for everyone to see? PTR IS BAD FOR THE GAMES, AND IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS YOU ARE NOT VERY BRIGHT.

No PTR + not showing losing hands on the river is perfect. Fish humiliation factor is low and I am happy.

good read bro, you must be a talented player with your sick reads

cake is different i dont remember what they use but what they use is the same thing that prevents poker tracker or HEM from datamining and allowing an in game HUD.

The idiots should really stop posting in this thread after this post. He nailed it. This site MUST offer an opt-out feature for the fish who find out about it. And for guys married to bright, nosy women. Or it is absolutely horrible for poker

AHAHAHA ur lolwesome..

Someone quitting something just because of internetz posting some results.. Sorry dude, but u arent alowed to talk bout casinos, when by ur post, u had show all NVG, or better, all 2p2 (people are registering just to read ur post as a memeber), that u never left ur house and ur desk, because u think that a really big amount of people would quit something just because of some page showing that their bad at thit.. Its like PTR shows ur photo and ur adress.. Serious dude, go get a life

+1+1+1...

I do like to use it time to time to table select... but i think the benefits of having it removed far outway the cost of losing the service... especially as time moves on and more losing players or "fish" learn of PTR

Thank you for confirming my last point.

An argument could be made that if you aren't willing to buy huge databases of hand histories, then it greatly diminishes the reliability and usefulness of a HUD. Not that I necessarily think this is what WTF had in mind, but it would be an interesting point for someone to make.

In a way, though, it just highlights that there is such a huge difference between these issues. Even if you're against trackers, you should be able to make that distinction. There's certainly no logical inconsistency in saying that I favor trackers but would like to opt out of PTR. And I don't think you can say that it diminishes my credibility: I mean, I play on Stars and last I looked, PT3 and HEM were allowed and PTR was banned. But really I'm sorry I brought it up if it's going to confuse the issues. I know I opened the door but my only goal was to communicate that I wasn't arguing out of angst or embarrassment (or "complaining") -- just trying to take a position on what I think is an important ethical question.

meh...I just can't get too worked up over this issue one way or the other, just don't berate the fish, & I don't really care.

such a f annoying site. the site is singlehandedly killing HU games on FT PS. impossible to get a game going for longer than 5 mins.

Serious question: are you ******ed?

the OP-

http://www.pokertableratings.com/bod...arch/higgy1020