Below you can see the list of top50 winners on WPN in last 365 days according to smarthand website. You'll notice that some players are highlighted(21/50) and they all have remarkably similar stats, from VPIP, WWSF to obscure stats like same SB limping ranges. This is all publicly available data (for free) on smarthands.com so you can check it for yourself.



Their stats look like this VPIP30 PFR22 3B8 WWSF48 ISO24 SB LIPM6 CALL OR20 XR6.
Other stats correlate as well. They have somewhat unique style of having very wide cold calling ranges in every position. Pretty much all of them are from Russia or nearby countries. They won over 33k(in last 365) just form winnings on NL25 and they also play higher and there is lot of RB on WNP. I try to reach to them through the chat but they never responded, which further reinforces the hypothesis that these are bots.

Another possible explanation is that they are all part of same coaching/staking group, but i find it very improbable that 20 guys can correlate their strategy to such find degree even if they try it. Especially if we keep in mind that people have their natural tendencies, they can be titled, they will not devote equal time to learning ect.

Here is list of top 15 regs on PS just for comparison




I hope this post will get the attention of someone from WPN and they further investigate this case. I filed a complaint to their security team, but I have not yet received any response.
Also if anyone has any additional information/explanation of what's going on here feel free to comment.

WPN won't investigate this. They are complicit. This evidence (with more data and more specific analysis) has been presented to ACR reps and WPN numerous times (in the ACR thread) and they mumble non-sequiturs and put out "WE TAKE SECURITY VERY SERIOUS" commercials. They are 100% complicit in the botting at this point, and the only actions they've taken in the past to regulate this (banning some accounts in a very publicized single wave) did nothing because the same accounts just opened new accounts and were allowed to continue. The site is either backing the bot farms, or will not remove them because they generate rake. WPN does not care about its player pool and has demonstrated this hundreds of times.

The only disclaimer I'll provide is that I have not evaluated the evidence/accounts provided in this post. The work done in the ACR threads though is comprehensive and has been summarily ignored by WPN.

This is pretty weakly analyzed. You have one guy 3betting 9.5 and few high 6.x which is really a absurd difference. I would work on narrowing down the people you look at.

Look at opening sizes, preflop ranges, cbetting sizings freq etc. With your logic basically every reg in every game is a bot since many will have similair numbers in the spots you look at. Some can also have easy explanations.

[IMG]

I played some hands with the players marked in yellow on OP. Notice they have low wwsf but high wwsf rating which means they are winning alot of multiway pots
Also they are 10 buy ins above ev over 16k hands

Heres the gyazo link:
https://gyazo.com/23435efb90091ee85b3e702f0bc96cef

Tnx for input.
I probably shouldn't have marked the 9.5 guy because he fits the profile the least.

That is not my logic of course. That's why I put a list of 15 regs from PS. None of them have similar enough stats like WPN players.
Of course there will be some differences between the stats due to the variance in poker, it is also possible that they use slightly different ranges to avoid detection, but the similarities are too big to be coincidental. Especially if we take into account the ISO raise and SB limp stats, which will vary a lot from reg to reg.

I don't have access to all those statistics you mentioned.

Bots have been a scourge on WPN for years, when I was playing 200/50 zoom as my only income I put in a bunch of volume and it was blatantly obvious who the bots were, always took forever for them to do anything about it but every once in a while I'd get a small refund.

Huge thread in "internet poker" subforum tracking it you should check out op

I’m almost certain there are no bots at 200nl these days, an opinion shared by a couple of solid midstakes grinders.

Try running it by the Tyler RM or what is name is or one of these guys that were working to catch chico bots. They know what to look at and can probably give you great answers from the hands and info you have

Two points come to mind looking at this briefly: Sample size and postflop stats. The type of clarification you are trying to make will be way more solid combining pre and postflop stats (obv given appropriate sample sizes)

it's kind of ironic that someone whose location refers to some gto related link which will surely instruct you on how to play exactly the same as everyone else "good" in order to not get exploited would use all the top winners on wpn having the same stats as evidence that they're bots

Sample sizes go from 60k-200k hands. You have two postflop stats WWSF and xr. Problem with post flop stats is that you need really big sample because they are affected by more factors like board distribution, how many MW specific player played and you get smaller sample because most hands are folded PF in NL. I could spend more time adding more stats to the table, but I'm not sure even if I show beyond a reasonable doubt that these are bots, it's not certain that the site will react.

@sixfor Why that would be ironic? You can see PS regs dont have such similarities between themselves and none of them play a strategy similar to WPN players.

I agree with some of what you are getting at but there is a world of difference between humans attempting to play GTO and bots

+1

I definitely recognize several of the players in yellow as players I have always suspected are bots. Pretty sure they have been mentioned in other threads before too, the ones I am talking about are:

NoNeedToKnow, wielded, SpringheelJack, robinyoustack, neophyte31, Glock18, Soletaire ... I don't remember for sure if I played with the others in yellow, but I also suspect Meteoroid, ANN1HILATE, Apuctokpat777, Groot2303, CHESDANT, 300btc from the unhighlighted part of the list.

I have seen Russian / Eastern Europe players do suspicious things at a high frequency preflop compared to other regs. Namely pushing out players who flat call. 1 Russian 3bets the other 4bets. It's likely not needed to share hole cards to make that play profitable, since someone who flat called is unlikely to continue against a 4bet, but I do think they share hole cards too. There are also some post flop spots that a lot of these players play the exact same but I am not going to mention the spots for obv reasons.

I dealt with their security department, they dont really give a damn.

Also, I got banned for botting / rta whilst I hadnt done any of that. And was scammed for big chunk of money. So there are two sides of the coin .

Dont be naive, this thread is useless. Just go make some money playing poker and dont leave too much money on the site.

Blitz Poker, Hero open raise, CO flats, BTN 3bets, I 4bet, CO back raise 5bets to 70% of effective stacks. Oh guess what they are both in Poland, what are the odds. Have seen this happen so many time at a much higher frequency than normal - these are regs not fish doing it.

For anyone talking about lack of stats/sample, I will post this google doc I made a while back demonstrates OP's point but with a lot more detail and sufficient stats

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

All from PLO 50 and you can see some other details etc.

I 100% agree that ACR is complicit to some degree. I would imagine that for them, it is much more profitable in the short term to just pretend that they are fixing the botting issue, rather than actually doing anything about it.

So how would you adapt to exploit their play?

Probably not 4-bet bluff, and don't flat call the 3b, since CO is probably 5-betting if you 4-bet or 4-betting if you flat. Maybe there is a better range to pick for 4-betting these spots if you can see them ahead of time.

The point is I shouldn't have to scroll over every player's country while playing fast fold poker (sometimes the country does not come up as easily as it should) to make sure I'm not in a trap.

These spots should be pretty easy to catch by WPN security since it's always roughly the same. Eastern Euro Reg / Russian Reg enter the pot and squeeze out player 3. Doesn't really matter what order the players enter the pot as long as player 3 is not closing the action the other 2 players can find highly +EV spots to squeeze player 3 out by sharing cards.

Regs from other areas of the world are certainly not doing this at any memorable frequency, but I see it multiple times daily from the Eastern Euros / Russians.

Not to mention they are presumably sharing hole cards which furthers my disadvantage here.

LOL american bots at low stakes... WHO WOULDA THOUGHT? LOL. That's like discovering Garfield likes lasagna.

Not sure why site wouldn't care about bot issue. They are hurting sites own bottom line. Bots play better then most regs, can put infinite volume, so recs lose their money more quickly and site gets less rake. But it really seems like WPN doesn't care, even tho this problem would be easily preventable.

i'm unsure that is how it works.

I recognize about half the names and felt they were bots too. I reported some suspects in the past and never heard back. It definitely feels like ACR is complicit by being silent.

Why?

Exactly. Im sure many remember UltimateBet as the largest incident of cheating in poker, my guess is if we could see the actual figures that WPN's bad actors have pulled out of the ecosystem it would dwarf UB. Two years ago I couldn't believe this was still going on

Only a finite amount of dollars that can flow into poker every year, we shouldn't underestimate just how much of that value has disappeared into WPN's cheating machine (and all the other sites populated by bot farms, and colluding stables that share the best software)