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Old 11-03-2016, 09:39 AM   #51
alfa3ET
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

Fishes watch Netflix.
Regs download torrents.

Where do you want to play?

If you are talking about 30 years on the future... oh well, maybe poker is solved already.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:21 AM   #52
scubaste3ve15
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by alfa3ET View Post
Fishes watch Netflix.
Regs download torrents.

Where do you want to play?

If you are talking about 30 years on the future... oh well, maybe poker is solved already.
Meh pretty sure pio solver "solved poker" and games are still good
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:30 AM   #53
alfa3ET
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Meh pretty sure pio solver "solved poker" and games are still good
It didn't. Not even close. It's very different from solving anything.

But the point here is people thinking this is the future and talking about bitcoins. No normal person knows what bitcoin is!

I would like to see a decentralised poker room. But this idea is far behind from being future of anything.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:32 AM   #54
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by pokerbet69 View Post
Do you think phill galfond site is something like this?
Sure

As long as he has either picked out his orange jump for prison or decided it's ok to give up his US citizenship, move and never return
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:10 PM   #55
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Sure

As long as he has either picked out his orange jump for prison or decided it's ok to give up his US citizenship, move and never return
I am pretty interested in seeing what his site has to offer for sure.
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:38 PM   #56
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by alfa3ET View Post
It didn't. Not even close. It's very different from solving anything.

But the point here is people thinking this is the future and talking about bitcoins. No normal person knows what bitcoin is!

I would like to see a decentralised poker room. But this idea is far behind from being future of anything.
No 'normal persons" knows how their mobile phone or tablet work either, but they sure love using it.

It will be all about the user experience, so long as they can be persuaded to try it; not users understanding the underlying technology. You doubt that blockchain technology will soon enough be running in the background of your financial or online commercial transactions ?

You miss the point, its the technology of the future and the key is how it can be adapted to familiar enough user desires and experience, but with perceptible, marketable improvements to that experience.
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:43 PM   #57
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Sure

As long as he has either picked out his orange jump for prison or decided it's ok to give up his US citizenship, move and never return
Your grasp of the law is underwhelming.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:01 PM   #58
alfa3ET
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by Geezer Soze View Post
No 'normal persons" knows how their mobile phone or tablet work either, but they sure love using it.

It will be all about the user experience, so long as they can be persuaded to try it; not users understanding the underlying technology. You doubt that blockchain technology will soon enough be running in the background of your financial or online commercial transactions ?

You miss the point, its the technology of the future and the key is how it can be adapted to familiar enough user desires and experience, but with perceptible, marketable improvements to that experience.
oh ok. So we will see Poker Stars using blockchain technology.
Still the same thing. No profit, no businnes, no players, no game.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:40 PM   #59
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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What do you think?

https://virtue.poker/#video
Well it sounds great, except for a few things:

1. Game integrity / security
If not centralised (and no-one can view cards), how are they going to have a security team investigate and protect against collusion / bots ?
Also, what if someone lost their hand history files? They can't request new ones.

In the video it says: it makes it 'impossible for a malicious company insider to tamper with the integrity of the games'. Which is great.
But what about stopping people outside the company from tampering with the integrity of the games?

Money won goes directly into the digital wallet. Also sounds great.
Except when they are found out later to have cheated and the poker site will have no way of retrieving the funds to give it back to the victims.

2. RNG
How can they implement the RNG?
Poker sites need dedicated bespoke hardware RNG equipment. If they don't, someone will crack the RNG.

3. Gaurantees
You definately need gaurantees to attract players, as someone rightly said earlier.
It's not clear how they would implement this.
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:32 PM   #60
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

Main point is: To be big, it will need money. Technology used is only a tool. I would be a lot more excited if they could propose a real business (with investors, profit, marketing, players, etc) where the rakes could be really cheap.

But that's not what they are doing. There's nothing about a real business plan on their idea.

Technology can reduce costs. But still, they NEED money. Neymar, Negreanu and Cristiano Ronaldo won’t support new brands for free.

I couldn't care less about what IT trick they will use. Just get me a cheap room where most people on the world would want to play. Not only 2+2 geeks. And they said NOTHING about it.
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:32 PM   #61
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by Geezer Soze View Post
Your grasp of the law is underwhelming.
yup

Why dont you start your alt currency poker site as a US citizen living in US and let me know how that turns out for you.

Better yet just call Bryan Micon and ask him how that turned out for him.

or just read

http://ag.nv.gov/News/PR/2015/Attorn...ming_Operator/
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:59 PM   #62
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

if this is legal and everything it seems like it could have some potential.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:05 PM   #63
Geezer Soze
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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yup

Why dont you start your alt currency poker site as a US citizen living in US and let me know how that turns out for you.

Better yet just call Bryan Micon and ask him how that turned out for him.

or just read

http://ag.nv.gov/News/PR/2015/Attorn...ming_Operator/
Turning up the volume on your megaphone does not make your speech any more correct, Judge Judy.

You seemingly do not understand that, generally speaking, it is the markets served by an operator that matter, not whether or not the operation is US-based or foreign-based or licensed somewhere or not.

In your example, the sin was not operating a poker ste, it was doing so without first getting a license. According to the complaint, Micon was accused of operating an online poker site from within Clark County and exposed for play within Nevada, without first getting a license; that it accepted bitcoin for deposits was not material. In Nevada, if you have the license to do so, operating a poker business is legal for serving players within the State, and perhaps in conjunction with other licensed operations in say, Delaware ... or eventually other jurisdictions.

(For one thing, before you go all "alt-currency" hysterical here, you also might realize that PokerStars $$ are perhaps the most widely used alt-currency in the poker world. Wake up, ALL poker sites ( and Nevada-licensed casinos) operate with alt-currency, presumably backed by site assets. In fact, FinCEN is actively discouraging any gambling with real US currency within the US.)

Also, it is a big world, however US-centric your frame of reference might be. That offering online poker not licensed by Nevada for play in Nevada is illegal in Nevada (and federally under the IGBA), does not make the same activity illegal offered or exposed for play worldwide.

Last edited by Geezer Soze; 11-03-2016 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:40 PM   #64
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

^^^

I've made no reference to the worldwide legality of alt currency sites. thats above my pay grade, and I will leave that to you and Judge Judy to hash out.

Someone asked if galfond site was this,

I simply said that if Galfond or any other US citizen living in the US owned a operated real money poker site (alt currency or not) taking bets from US, he would be prosecuted by one or more US authorities.

Last edited by PTLou; 11-03-2016 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:13 PM   #65
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

i was just trying to dream about a rake free poker site with a worldwide playerpool, but some of you just crushed my dream
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:53 PM   #66
LegendaryLurker
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

The legality of this keeps getting mentioned. Apparently, not everyone is able to wrap their minds around decentralized poker.

DECENTRALIZATION = CENSORSHIP RESISTANT.

The government cannot shut down a decentralized poker site.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:34 AM   #67
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by Geezer Soze View Post
Turning up the volume on your megaphone does not make your speech any more correct, Judge Judy.

You seemingly do not understand that, generally speaking, it is the markets served by an operator that matter, not whether or not the operation is US-based or foreign-based or licensed somewhere or not.

In your example, the sin was not operating a poker ste, it was doing so without first getting a license. According to the complaint, Micon was accused of operating an online poker site from within Clark County and exposed for play within Nevada, without first getting a license; that it accepted bitcoin for deposits was not material. In Nevada, if you have the license to do so, operating a poker business is legal for serving players within the State, and perhaps in conjunction with other licensed operations in say, Delaware ... or eventually other jurisdictions.

(For one thing, before you go all "alt-currency" hysterical here, you also might realize that PokerStars $$ are perhaps the most widely used alt-currency in the poker world. Wake up, ALL poker sites ( and Nevada-licensed casinos) operate with alt-currency, presumably backed by site assets. In fact, FinCEN is actively discouraging any gambling with real US currency within the US.)

Also, it is a big world, however US-centric your frame of reference might be. That offering online poker not licensed by Nevada for play in Nevada is illegal in Nevada (and federally under the IGBA), does not make the same activity illegal offered or exposed for play worldwide.
I stopped reading after you clowned on Judge Judy. That's my girl so you better check yourself!
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:35 AM   #68
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by LegendaryLurker View Post
The legality of this keeps getting mentioned. Apparently, not everyone is able to wrap their minds around decentralized poker.

DECENTRALIZATION = CENSORSHIP RESISTANT.

The government cannot shut down a decentralized poker site.
North Korea
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:25 AM   #69
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
...so similar clearinghouses will have to be built for poker cashouts?
No. Bitcoins are transferred via a unique transaction address consisting of 26-35 alphanumeric characters. The clearinghouse doesn't know where the coins originated. However, they have the right to ask.

Offline wallets allow bitcoin transfers without a clearinghouse intermediary, but eventually you'll have to convert your stash to US dollars via a legit clearinghouse.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:26 AM   #70
PTLou
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by LegendaryLurker View Post
The legality of this keeps getting mentioned. Apparently, not everyone is able to wrap their minds around decentralized poker.

DECENTRALIZATION = CENSORSHIP RESISTANT.

The government cannot shut down a decentralized poker site.
what you say is true in a Utopian sort of way.

But in real life, here on a planet earth, even a decentralized site would need to be organized, developed, marketed, and operated by some human being(s).

Its not like a decentral / alt currency site just materializes from thin air and runs itself. It will need to be owned and operated by humans.

Depending on where these humans take bets from, they would be breaking laws in many large jurisdictions (United States for starters).

Depending on where these human beings were citizens and lived, they would likely be prosecuted by one more authorities. The bigger they got, the more they marketed, the more likely the prosecution.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:46 AM   #71
Dr. Meh
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by ronl2k View Post
No. Bitcoins are transferred via a unique transaction address consisting of 26-35 alphanumeric characters. The clearinghouse doesn't know where the coins originated. However, they have the right to ask.

Offline wallets allow bitcoin transfers without a clearinghouse intermediary, but eventually you'll have to convert your stash to US dollars via a legit clearinghouse.
But that's assuming the site takes bitcoins. They never actually mention that in the video.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:24 PM   #72
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

Tough to root against them to succeed given the rate of poker legislation in the US.
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Old 11-05-2016, 06:39 AM   #73
LektorAJ
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

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Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
2. RNG
How can they implement the RNG?
Poker sites need dedicated bespoke hardware RNG equipment. If they don't, someone will crack the RNG.
I don't claim to know the answers to all your questions, but this isn't really the case. You can just take a bit of the random number seed from individual machines at the table. Unless - as well as cracking the algorithm - you know (e.g.) the three millisecond digits for how long seat number 6 has had the client open, what the 2nd decimal place of the internal temp of seat 4's box is and a whole load of stuff like that you can't reproduce the shuffle or deal on your own machine.

Of course you could know (or even manipulate) the info coming from your own computer but that doesn't help. As a thought experiment - imagine some people play a game where they each roll a dice (hidden) and then bet on whether the total will be an odd or even number. A dishonest player may try to view his own dice but the information doesn't help him unless he knows what the other dice show.

The main bit I don't understand is, if there is no central server then who deals the cards and how can we trust them? 7-handed except UTG sits out each hand?

Last edited by LektorAJ; 11-05-2016 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:14 AM   #74
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

This will be interesting to follow to say the least.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:45 AM   #75
KILLingIT
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Re: Decentralised poker is the future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lClBD62Mys

havent watched yet...
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