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Originally Posted by bosox15
1)You can not realistically expect live MTT stats to mirror online MTT stats. Online events very often have worse structures and overall tougher fields than live events. The average online pro typically plays many tables at a time and thus also lowers their ROI (even if only slightly).
This is why one of baselines I used was from one of the best online players: Chris Moorman. It's why I used the WSOP data as a guide for a lower bound for likely ROI.
I think people have somehow misunderstood the point of the article. I wasn't looking for the highest possible ROI for live tournament players. I was looking for the statistical norm. There are going to be players both above and below the norm. Some players' ROI will be far, far above the norm, others will be at the lowest possible: -100% (although they're not likely to be professionals for long at that figure).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosox15
2)Using stats from 136 players and 7,926 tournaments to claim what a long term ROI for WSOP events is ludicrous. The average field size at the 2013 WSOP was 1,282 players. You would need a MUCH larger sample size to even begin to estimate what a decent ROI for a good player is.
Ths is wrong. There are about 75,000 entries in WSOP events during the summer, about 150,000 total during the years 2011-12. The sample is more than 5% of the total number of entries in the two-year period, and a much higher percentage of professional players entering WSOP events. The ROI figure for the group is just slightly lower than the
median ROI figure I calculated for players who made final tables and played 20+ events in 2011.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosox15
3)Obviously consistency is key to surviving, but saying that just because it was only one big score that made a player most of his profit means you can't make a living playing MTTs doesn't make sense. Every MTT player knows all of the money is in the top 3 spots, whether it is a 180 man field or a 8,000 player field. Penalizing their results for achieving what a player is striving to do is counter intuitive. I always tell people my goal playing live MTTs is to break even until I get my big score.
That's actually the same thing I wrote.
I'm not sure why you think I "penalize" anyone for anything. I just pointed out that for a lot of players, a big win can make the difference between profit and loss. That does mean that a player may be a "losing" player for a while even if they have the ability to win a tournament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosox15
In conclusion; do I agree with this article? Not as it currently sits, if you change it to "Why it is extremely difficult to make a living playing Live Poker tournaments" then that would be something I could get behind.
Making a living playing primarily Live MTTs is very difficult, but at the same time definitely possible.
I didn't pick the title for the article. I just tried to put some numbers behind Bryan Devonshire's remarks about the difficulty of being a live tournament specialist in the US. Of course it's possible. But it's not the norm.