I love it.

Even when I make a very fair and even-handed post, with parts defending Mason, he still writes a response bashing me. Just amazing.

I'm not going to get into a long debate back and forth about something that occurred in 2012. But I will respond to this:

First off, I had a very small "role" in this mess. I allowed it to be promoted on my site, and I gave them some technical resources to put it on. I was not involved in the planning or execution of the podcast.

Anyway, I would say that my site more than redeemed itself, as various people got together to track down Jasep, painstakingly extracted the money from him a small amount at a time, and tracked down victims from years ago and repaid them. How often does such a thing happen regarding scams which occur on 2+2?

But while you're getting your poker community halo fitted, you might want to ask yourself why you ran Lock Poker ads for so long after it was clearly outed as a scam. Or perhaps ask yourself why credible threads calling out one of your authors (Stoxtrader) as a Pokerstars colluder were repeatedly deleted, until Viffer (of all people) had to get involved to bring enough attention to the matter.

Get a room. No one else gives a **** about this old beef.

Kilowatt you're an annoying user.

Dan - www.nimajooyandeh.com was built by a 2p2er and is the ongoing result of ~120,000 posts of truth extraction.

Only easy bite sized dnegs drama please.

Well we at 2+2 don't love it. You need to understand that neglecting important facts can be just as important as misstating important facts.

So what did you neglect to state. How about this, and correct me if I'm wrong. Weren't you promoting this J Sep person for other things on your website well before the ripoff of the 22Q Foundation occurred?

If individuals on your site did this, good for them.

We quit taking their ads, which was a substantial amount of money, once we understood that there was a problem.

Again, as soon as we understood there was a problem we took action. You need to understand that just because someone posts that there is a problem with someone else, it doesn't make it a fact. Also, unknown to you, I did play a role behind the scenes in encouraging the closing down of the Stoxpoker training site and merging it into Cardrunners. It just turned out that I was one of the few people who could still talk to Nick Grudzien and encourage him to move on.

Now let's come back to you, and this is from my previous post:

"And as long as you’re here writing about this stuff you should also mention that the most generous contribution to the 22Q foundation came from me. Of course, you did write that I must of had an ulterior motive for my donation since there was no way i’m a charitable person. However, at that time you didn’t know that my wife and I had already given away a great deal of money through our private foundation."

So why don't you address this instead of ignoring it? Also, Mr. ScammerAlertGuy, since you're so concerned about us running ads years ago for Lock Poker, have you ever spoken out about CardPlayer Magazine. As I'm sure you know, we quit accepting ads from WPN/ACR. Of course, you don't mention that. But CardPlayer is still running their ads. Seems to me that this would be a good opportunity for you to go on one of your crusades, and for a change, you might even be right.

Mason

wow same line of reasoning he used regarding rake

"more rake is actually better"

and now: "more education is actually better"

I am not aware of any site stopping the Lock advertising before 2+2. Same goes for Ultimate Bet and Full Tilt. Cardplayer continued to run UB ads till the very end and beyond.

what a coincidence

Why don't you worry about building 7 first?

Why is this important? I haven't made a single post in this thread questioning your charitable contributions. We put that subject to bed a long time ago.

Yes, Mason, you donated $2500 or something to the 22Q foundation during your whole pissing contest with Negreanu. Yes, I still believe you did this in order to show him up (that's why you chose this specific charity). Just because you also donate to your own tennis charity doesn't change why you donated to that specific charity at that specific time.

In any case, it seems you want my acknowledgment and recognition for your 22Q donation, so here you go:




Regarding Lock Poker, you wrote:

As one of the earliest and most vocal Lock critics on this site, I can tell you that this is not at all a true statement.

Did you take down the Lock ads earlier than Cardplayer? Yes. Did you keep running the ads for many months after problems were well-documented and well-established on your own site? Yes.

If you really want, we can go into the archives and look up the exact timeline. I do remember that 2+2 management was repeatedly asked to stop running the Lock ads, given the indisputable evidence of fraud and insolvency, yet there was quite a delay before that was actually done.


Yes, I've spoken out about Cardplayer for many years. I even confronted Jeff Shulman at Bellagio once, regarding running Lock ads at the time. I've bashed Cardplayer plenty for what they did, both on my forum and radio show.

But just because they were worse doesn't mean that you weren't also guilty of the same thing.

Look, I wasn't even planning upon bringing this stuff up here, and in fact just showed up in this thread to clarify some points regarding the Negreanu/22Q podcast situation. You were the one who jumped into attack mode, and had the nerve to tell me that I "owed" the poker community for what happened. To receive such a lecture from the guy who ran Lock ads, long after they were clearly insolvent, is quite laughable.

Internet fights amongst people who are not anonymous come across as really childish.

At least when anonymous people fight online you can write it off as both being idiots.

You both are certainly not idiots.

Mason, as a long term and grateful member of 2+2 , I must say your unwillingness to just let things go is creepy and confusing. You run an internet site. people are going to say things you don't like.

For the love of god, just let it all go. You'll be surprised how overall life happiness improves and all the negative energy that appears to consume you can be focused into more positive areas.

Kilo, you are responding to a man that uses the phrase "should of" and clearly doesn't respond well to basic logic. Your time is probably better spent elsewhere.

My donation had nothing to do with Negreanu. If you knew my history, you would know that I've always been very generous. For instance, 2+2 has always paid far higher author royalties than industry standards, and our authors, in general, made about five times what they would have made if they had gone with another publisher with our field.

Well, let's take a closer look at this. Here is a link to a 2013 thread that I started about our position with Lock Poker that you participated in. Obviously, you must have forgotten about this thread, and I suggest you reread your posts since you certainly had a different attitude than.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...poker-1328233/

Also, for everyone's interest, here's a link to a short article on this subject that appeared on PokerFuse:

https://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-roo...o-worse-06-05/

Okay. If you now say so. But that's not what you said in the 2013 thread linked to above. Here's a quote from you that appeared in Post #46:

I think it's clear that we handled the Lock Poker situation as well as we could, and you even agreed.

Well good for you. By the way, I've also have had a couple of conversations with B. Shulman along these same lines. In fact, here's an email that I received from B. Shulman in 2005 the day after our first conversation.

From: Barry Shulman
To: MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: relationship

Good morning Mason.

From the bottom of my heart I truly felt sad all night thinking how upset you are with me.

I am not coming from a business agenda here. Financially life is very grand for all of us whose livelihoods have been attached to the business of poker.

As we get older and more financially solvent it is a logical step to think about stress, health, enjoyment and other ephemeral things.

You were visibly upset when you saw me and I want to do whatever I can in order to help you enjoy. I do not want to be the reason for you to have a heart attack or even a stomach ache.

Although I swear that what your friend thought he heard was not accurate, it probably just gets you more upset revisiting it.

When you did not honor your obligation to me I must confess that I was quite distraught, but life goes on and I have gotten over it long ago.

I would love to take you out for a drink to just get things behind us. We do not need to ever discuss any business if you so choose. Things are good. Let's enjoy each other.

Additionally I apologize for any grief I may have ever caused you.

Your friend (I hope).

Barry

And you were the one who conveniently left some important facts out. Again, I understand that you were supporting/promoting the J Sep person, the host who apparently appropriated a good portion of the charity money for himself, before the Las Vegas Poker Radio even started up. I'm not sure how correct this is, but I think it would be important for you to explain this.

And one final thing, since again you're the Mr. ScammerAlertGuy, here are two more links for you to look at. In the first one, please read the four reviews. In the second one, please read the review by J. Voelker:

https://www.amazon.com/Poker-Tournam...=arnold+Snyder

https://www.amazon.com/According-Doy...=doyle+Brunson

Mason

Lock Poker still owes me money. How do I get it?

Mason, I praised you and Mat for taking the Lock ads down in 2013 because I was trying to give positive reinforcement for such behavior. But in reality, you ran those ads for far too long, and I'm guessing it led to a lot of additional people getting scammed.

On May 3, 2013, you announced the end of the Lock ads on 2+2.

However, payout problems were reported there as early as 2012, and by February 2013, it was very clear that Lock was having severe financial problems.

You took an additional three months to act, while collecting ad revenue during those months.

There is a Lock discussion thread on my forum (in the Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness area) where the timeline can easily be deduced. I would post the link, but you'll freak out and claim I'm spamming, so I won't.

Suffice to say that, by February 2013, it was exceedingly clear that Lock was not cashing people out, and the usual obvious signs of an insolvent poker site were all there. Despite intense discussion of this on 2+2, for some reason you took 3 more months to act. That's a fact.

This is now 5 years ago, and it really has nothing to do with Negreanu or this thread. I'm going to drop this subject now, but perhaps consider your own past misjudgments before attacking others who have done their best to out scammers and other bad actors in poker.

If it had nothing to do with Negreanu or this thread, then why did you bring Lock Poker up? See Post #2252. In addition, you still haven't answered what your relationship relative to promoting J Sep on your website was.

Also, there is something you could do for me. I don't have a link to Negreanu's interview on the 50 Hour Charity podcast. Does it still exist somewhere? and if it does, perhaps you could supply it.

Mason

I want to follow up on this a little more. The following two threads are from Mr. ScammerFraudAlertGuy's forum. In the first post of the first thread Jasep posts that he's given permission by Dan Druff, who posts here as Kilowatt, to ask for money. In the second one, Post #20 is interesting. That's where Dan Druff states that "Jasep has a good reputation."

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...P-Extravaganza

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...3-BAP-22Q-SCAM

I also noticed another thread about one of their radio shows where Dan Druff states that he'll talk about another scam involving Jasep and a childrens charity in 2010. Now to be fair, I don't know if Kilowatt/Druff knew about this in 2012 when the 50 Hour Charity Podcast took place.

Now, given that this is a Negreanu thread, why is this important. Well, on the 50 Hour Charity Podcast, where Jasep was the host, in the Negreanu interview, he encouraged Negreanu to go off on me and Two Plus Two, which of course Negreanu did. But I now realize that Jasep knew, even though we didn't at that time, because of his past history, that not allowing him to promote his 50 Hour Charity Podcast on Two Plus Two was the correct decision. And as a result, I and Two Plus Two were blasted by a number of people besides Negreanu and Jasep, for having policies that were clearly the correct policies.

Put another way, Jasep probably felt it was important to do everything he could to damage our credibility, and Negreanu was unwittingly there to help.

Mason

It's actually PokerFraudAlert

I think both of you need to grow up and put this petty crap behind you, no good will come of it.

Neither of you are scammers and you've both made mistakes.

Druff gets lots of crap for running a forum that is barely moderated.
Mason gets lots of crap for running a forum that is over moderated.
You both think you're smarter than the other.

Maybe one already exists?, but a poker arbitration panel would improve poker in various areas, standards in the industry generally, and help people move on.

It could sit and rule on various incidents and disputes, make judgements, observations or recommendations, in some instances legally binding ones if the parties involved agreed to such in advance.

I'd envisage such a panel sitting mostly on player/player matters or things like this Mason/DNegs, Mason/Dandruff one.

Panel members elected by their peers, plus a few independent non poker people.

Funding could be from a small voluntary annual contribution from any players worth their salt.

There is no chance that Mason, DNegs or Druff will ever admit they are wrong as far as these personal spats go...arbitration would be arbitrary in the opinion of whoever loses.

100% this. And with that, perhaps the most epic derail of all derails of a thread can end (this is a Dnegs thread IIRC)

In related news, maybe Mason should get his own Containment thread for any issues or people who have hurt his feelings over the past 60 years.

Where is my Lock Poker money!!!!!

It’s all locked up