Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here - Page 359 - Poker News

Indeed, and when DN's first bullet gets below the starting stack, he will basically dust it off so he can reload to the starting stack size. So the expected return for an investor on that first stack is pretty dire.

(which is normal for rebuy tournament play, it's just a bit offensive to combine that with only selling shares in the first bullet, instead of, say, having some kind of scaling cut of all his action depending on his outlay)

scaling doesn't work because you're getting screwed as the player. If someone wants 10 percent of EVERYTHING for 10 percent of all buy ins that's fine. But say instead you want to scale. You sell me 10 percent to a 10k at no markup. But we agree if you rebuy we scale. So if you bust and rebuy I have 5 percent of you in that. If you don't rebuy obviously I'm out the 1k. So if you rebuy you're paying the full 10k but only getting 95 percent of youself. My equity was 0 and now you're just gifting me 5 percent. It makes no sense.

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11-03-2023 , 12:07 AM

#8952

Sonora

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

There’s two As and 4s out

Yeah but suits dont matter in this example can you guess why?

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11-03-2023 , 12:21 AM

#8953

rickroll

oddly catty

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 23,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonora

Yeah but suits dont matter in this example can you guess why?

but how do you know the suits were the only parts that were wrong?

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11-03-2023 , 12:29 AM

#8954

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonora

Yeah but suits dont matter in this example can you guess why?

Lol

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11-03-2023 , 01:10 AM

#8955

Sonora

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickroll

but how do you know the suits were the only parts that were wrong?

Cause they most likely to be misreported(as somebody who actually plays this game in a tournament format from time to time)

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11-03-2023 , 01:33 AM

#8956

rickroll

oddly catty

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 23,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonora

Cause they most likely to be misreported(as somebody who actually plays this game in a tournament format from time to time)

thanks for solving that, can you also crack who really killed jfk while we have your attention

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11-03-2023 , 01:52 AM

#8957

Sonora

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CIA or Lee Harvey Oswald

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11-03-2023 , 11:08 AM

#8958

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Lost Colony of Roanoke, where did they go?

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11-03-2023 , 08:19 PM

#8959

deuceblocker

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I am willing to believe he has AK42ds as it is a good 3! bluffing hand, and is maybe a playable hand in other situations. I couldn't see stack sizes. He could have been reasonably deep against the preflop raiser so that the pfr could call the 3! and fold postflop to represented AAxx / strong KKxx. Obviously committed against short stack could 4! allin.

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11-03-2023 , 08:58 PM

#8960

Sonora

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I see, yeah I can get behind that reasoning

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11-04-2023 , 01:56 PM

#8961

deuceblocker

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He can also make a wrap, 2-pair, or trips on a low flop, and he won't be put on low cards. It will be assumed he has a high pocket pair or a strong high rundown.

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11-04-2023 , 02:15 PM

#8962

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Originally Posted by MastaAces

i love 3-bet bluffing 13bb deep in omaha! prints money like you wouldn't believe.

They were 13bb deep?

Doesn’t look like it

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11-04-2023 , 03:07 PM

#8963

NickMPK

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This discussion just reinforces my belief that literally no one is good at PLO.

(Certainly there are winning players at PLO, but that’s because they have good poker sense in general, not because they’ve unlocked some secret to PLO specifically.)

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11-04-2023 , 03:12 PM

#8964

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Originally Posted by NickMPK

Yeah and let’s use an example where they’ll no one knows what Negreanu has and also people can’t count how many bbs effective. That will drive home the point!

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11-04-2023 , 04:59 PM

#8965

Sonora

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Please let us know how much he has in BBs then

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11-04-2023 , 05:32 PM

#8966

MastaAces

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonora

Please let us know how much he has in BBs then

if the Jesse raised pot (it's a tournament so this is far from a guarantee; RFI sizes are often smaller) then Ben Lamb jammed for 13BBs. however, since DN is CO and Ben Lamb is BU and Jesse raised UTG, obviously there are more than 3 players to start the hand (≥ 5, very likely 6 or more due to usage of "under the gun").

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickMPK

without knowing the very basic info about the hand played it is impossible for anyone to give any type of strategic insight. there are plenty of great PLO players.

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11-04-2023 , 10:13 PM

#8967

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonora

Please let us know how much he has in BBs then

You can do it if you want, but it wasn’t 13. Not even close.

You’re welcome

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11-05-2023 , 01:00 AM

#8968

deuceblocker

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We don't know DN's hand for sure or the stack sizes at the table. This isn't just PLO, but PLO MTT play, and we are looking at the play by a strong MTT player. Equities run close in PLO. DN's reported hand is really only in bad shape allin preflop against AAxx. The expected loss against AAxx was not that great because there were the original raiser's bet and the blinds as dead money. As I indicated, the reported hand has great blockers and can flop many draws. I don't see how the play can be particularly bad.

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11-05-2023 , 01:10 AM

#8969

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

We know the stack sizes from the HH and that the big blind was at most 9K

Someone erroneously suggested he was trying to bluff the short stack Lamb but he wasn’t

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11-05-2023 , 08:44 AM

#8970

deuceblocker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

We know the stack sizes from the HH and that the big blind was at most 9K

Someone erroneously suggested he was trying to bluff the short stack Lamb but he wasn’t

Where is the HH with the stack sizes? If the BB had 9K, it was a bad play with the original raise 16K, and I don't know why the BB didn't call 3-ways. Was it in the money, and the BB trying to move up is places? DN was obviously trying to bluff the original raiser. If he gii against some short stack with pot odds, that is OK if short stack doesn't have AAxx. If he got cold 4! by someone reasonably deep, he could fold or call getting 2-1 immediate pot odds.

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11-05-2023 , 09:48 AM

#8971

deuceblocker

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Whether it was a good play or a bad play, it is interesting what DN was doing. He was bluff 3!ing with a marginal hand that had great blockers, good equity allin, and good playability if called. People implying it was a donk play are just showing how clueless they are about tournament play.

It may be a bad play and he may be ev- in PLO shrs, but it is interesting to see how a strong tournament player who knows all the games approaches this. It was obviously thought through and not some stupid donk play.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 11-05-2023 at 10:01 AM.

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11-07-2023 , 04:01 PM

#8972

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

You can see the stack sizes after the hand took place, thus it’s easy to figure out what they were during the hand. Initial raise was 18K so who knows what big blind is 6k or 9K

Regardless this hand is “whatever”

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11-07-2023 , 09:18 PM

#8973

deuceblocker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

So DN had about 40xBB and the original raiser had about 60xBB. I am not sure if the original raiser would fold HU getting 2-1 immediate pot odds. However, it is clearly a 3! bluff with a double suited AK, blocking both AA and KK. It may or may not be a good play, but it isn't that DN is a total PLO donk and doesn't know it is a marginal hand.

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11-07-2023 , 10:24 PM

#8974

Sonora

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Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

I think better players would argue that there is no 3betbluffing in plo with shorter stacksizes and that it might be even worse with icm where everytime you put money into the pot you are way more likely to bust out on a cooler or on a flip than in holdem for example

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11-08-2023 , 02:03 PM

#8975

ScotchOnDaRocks

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Yeah I’ve decided to give DNegs a pass, a clean bill of health. We don’t know what he had and I’m not really swayed by “I think better players would argue”.

Onto the next

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